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Old 07-09-2009, 02:32 PM
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Gord Gord is offline
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Burlington, Ontario
Posts: 171

Originally Posted by Diligent View Post

You said:

Then you quoted Ro 3:10-18; Jer 13:23; Tit 3:3; Joh 6:44, 65, 37 -- none of which say anything about the ability of man to believe the Gospel. This stems from the fundamental error of Calvinism in equating works with and in defining belief as a fruit of the Spirit that can only come after salvation. I am not arguing that in my unsaved state that I could "come to" God. I couldn't. He came to me. I could not do anything to please God nor would I have sought to in my unsaved state. But I could believe. God did the work -- I simply believed. Belief is not a work.
Brandon, thank you for your insight. But I must add that you really proved my point on a lot of things I said about everyone coming in with preconceived ideas about the "C" word and going blind to give the response they 'preconceived' to give me.

Let me point out:

I made a statement:
1. The belief that God predestined people for salvation before the beginning of time. Godís election is not conditioned by anything in man, good or evil, foreseen or present, but upon Godís sovereign choice.

Then I cited scripture to verify that statement.
Ro 3:10-18; Jer 13:23; Tit 3:3; Joh 6:44, 65, 37

Then you go on to give me the standard anti-"C word" answer about
-- none of which say anything about the ability of man to believe the Gospel. Gods sovereign choice was not conditional on man, but you had to tell me about belief. That's a condition of man. Belief comes after regeneration, and that is what God granted to us.

I know that the ability of man to believe is paramount, but if you re read the statement and verify it with the scriptures I provided to back up my statement you will see I didn't want to say anything about the ability of man to believe the Gospel. At least not in the context of the point I was trying to share.

This could go on forever, back and forth as I assume you know what I mean, and you assume I know what you mean, so I will spend a few days on my word processor, I will come back to post a start to finish, and back it with scripture, explanation of what I gather the scriptures to mean on this topic. I won't be using quotes from the respondents per say, but I will answer all the questions and objections of the respondants with scripture to back it up.

I don't believe my theology is entirely Calvinistic, (even though that's where I've been pigeon holed) but I do believe it to be entirely scriptural. I understand that this is a very difficult topic, and quite frankly a sore spot with those who have already formulated their own theologies based on scripture as they understand it, and what I would like to do, from a new angle share mine in a way that no one will come in with that idea, and perhaps we can share and edify each other. Even (as they understand it) will rub a lot the wrong way, but remember, before we were saved, things like the Virgin Birth, the Trinity were totally incomprensable until we believed. I don't want this going in the direction of an 'I know more than you' or 'my belief is more correct than yours' forum, but I want us all to learn from each other what the Holy Spirit has taught us each through His precious Word (KJV) and thereby each become edified in His name for the Glory of God.