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Old 07-08-2009, 03:51 PM
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Luke Luke is offline
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And then there is the Supralapsarian view. This is the consistent view of most calvinists especially presbyterians, as well as men like John Piper, and A.W. Pink

i)Decree to elect some to be saved and to reprobate all others.
ii)Decree to create men both elect and non-elect.
iii) Decree to permit the fall.
iv) Decree to provide salvation for the elect.
v) Decree to apply salvation to the election.

Here is the most consistent calvinist view of God's eternal decrees. Except the order given directly makes God the author of all sin.

You see, according to the common calvinist view, God elects those who he would save BEFORE he even permits the fall, before he provides salvation, before he decrees anything else. It's not that he looks on all mankind and sees none worthy of salvation and has grace on some anyway, but that he "sovereignly" decrees some to heaven while reprobating all others and so the fall is the means to reprobation. Everything that follows is simply to complete this "secret will" of divine reprobation. God created the elect and non elect because he had already decreed to save some and damn others. He FORCED the fall because he had already decreed to save some and damn others. He provides salvation for those he chose to save while leaving the others without hope. And he forcibly saves those He chose while forcibly offering no hope to those he willed to perish.
Since you replied with a quote from A.W. Pink that basically said we all have carnal minds, instead of actually reading what the Bible says, I have quoted again for your benefit the teaching of A.W. Pink on God's decrees and his reprobation.

A.W. Pink believed that God decreed the fall simply to give a reason for him to condemn those he had already chosen to reprobate. Many publishers removed the chapter on "Reprobation" from his book "The Sovereignty of God" for this very reason.

Here are some quotes from Calvin for you to ponder.

I freely acknowledge my doctrine to be this: that Adam fell, not only by the permission of God, but by His very secret counsel and decree;
God certainly did decree from the beginning everything which should befall the race of man
God foresees all future events only by reason of fact that he decreed that they take place
But why should we say "permission" unless it is because God wills
Nothing happens except what is knowingly and willingly decreed by Him
According to Calvin, not even Adam, in the image of God, had free will, since God had ordained him to fall.

Secret Providence p 266-67
Eternal Predestination p 93

Both by Calvin

No one is arguing with you that none would come if God did not draw them. But God does draw all men through the preaching of His word and Christ lifted up. We are saying that men can choose to reject the influence of the spirit, or heed it and believe. Without the spirit, there is no way a man could believe, because he is bent towards natural things.