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Old 07-07-2009, 04:57 PM
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Forrest Forrest is offline
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 597

Originally Posted by Diligent View Post
I recall when I was sucked into Calvinism. It was shortly after I "got serious" about Bible study. I first resisted it. This is how it went:

1. Somebody tells me, God predestinated us to be saved or not.
2. I say, no, that makes us all robots.
3. They point out all the verses that use the word "predistinate" "elect" and the forms thereof.
4. Suddenly I have to become a Calvinist.

Why the leap from 3 to 4? Because I let the Calvinist define what predestination affects, so when I run across the word, I have to accept their position.

The key (and why I finally dropped Calvinism and took God out of Calvin's box) is what does God predestinate? You ask a Calvinist to find you a verse that says God predestines us to belief or not, and they will never produce a single one -- they will run all sorts of circuits trying to link things up, but they can't do it.

The fundamental failure in the Calvinist "process" of Salvation is that they place the seal if the Holy Spirit before belief. They say nobody can believe God until the Holy Spirit changes them so that they can. But Paul leaves no room for this error:
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
The whole point of predestination is that God chose us IN CHRIST. We become in Christ by believing on him and receiving him. The corporate body of Christ was predestined to this inheritence (verse 14), which is still future.
Ephesians 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
What we "get" out of predestination hasn't even occurred yet -- it's a future redemption.

The other taboo verse for Calvinism is this:
Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Calvinism turns this verse into a mockery instead of an invitation. It turns our Saviour into a disingenuous pleader. The standard Calvinist response to this is "nobody will." That just turns the words of our Lord into a void, and we know that isn't possible. (Isa 55:11)
For additional edification, expound on this:

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,