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Old 07-05-2009, 12:22 PM
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Will Kinney Will Kinney is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Colorado, a beautiful state with four distinct seasons; sometimes in the same day!
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Default My words shall not pass away

Quote:
Originally Posted by Critical Thinking View Post
He was not lying, Will. You correctly described Jesus as being "Lord" & "Christ" which is virtually stating that He is God, which He is. And God cannot lie. Jesus' statement is true!

However, ALL of Jesus earthly spoken words have not been preserved for us in writing. For examples, Jesus surely spoke before He was twelve years of age; and Luke witnesses that Jesus taught "daily" for a while in the temple, and frequently "on the sabbath days" (clearly, none of the Gospels contain over three years worth of spoken ministry). John says that Jesus preformed "many other signs" not written down in his gospel (and presumably also the associated speech).

Therefore, Jesus must NOT have literally meant that all His words would be preserved in the Bible for us. In a sense, some of His words are inaccessible from us for now. Many of Jesus words are not found in the Bible anywhere.

Jesus potentially could have spoken the same words (found in Matthew 23:14) many times; and even if they were never recorded, they would still be His words. Jesus statement doesn't exclusively apply to enscriptured words (written revelation). In other words, just because Jesus said something, it doesn't mean those words had to get into the Bible.

[BTW - Have your words and mine passed away? Well, since we must give account unto the Lord someday our words must be preserved somewhere at least until then.]

While "my words will not pass away" is a true statement, it actually adds nothing to prove the authenticity of any particular words attributed to Christ. Thinking folks will recognize your inclusion of "my words will not pass away" as a circular argument here at best. You don't need it.

Hi CT. Thanks for your thoughts. I have heard these arguments before, but I must say, I apparently look at the meaning of "heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away" differently than you do.

If we take this saying by the Lord Jesus they way you do, then He either lied, exaggerated, didn't know what He was talking about, or else He was mistaken.

The way I understand His words there is this. The Lord Jesus Christ knew what was going to be written in "the book of the LORD" before it was actually penned. He knew what inspired Scripture would be, because God Himself is the Author of it. Didn't He say things like: "the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's that sent me." (John 14:24) and "the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself, but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak." (John 12:48-49.

I also sense from a certain buzz word you used - 'enscriptured' - that you yourself are one of those people we run into so often who does not believe that there ever existed nor exists now any Bible in any language (including your "the" Hebrew and Greek) that IS the complete, inspired and 100% true Holy Bible. Am I right? Please let us know what your views on "the Bible" really are. Will you do that for us?

Thanks,

Will Kinney