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Old 06-23-2009, 05:39 PM
Winman Winman is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 464
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Bro George said

Quote:
Now let’s see, you did say - ”Calling people names like "false teacher" is very reminicient of the Pharisees, not Jesus.” - DIDN’T YOU? I guess you are EXEMPT from your own condemnation? Hmmm? If I recall, there is a “word” in the Bible for people who SAY ONE THING – BUT DO ANOTHER, you wouldn’t happen to know it, would you?
Bro George, no, I do not think I am exempt. I did not enjoy saying all those things to you, I really did not. But I was trying to give you a little example of how you talk to people on this forum on a fairly regular basis. I could go back and find many posts were you rip fellow believers apart. In this instance, you did not criticize me, you criticized premio58. I don't know him/her, but I have seen you do this to others several times. It really bothers me to see a Christian (or any person) act like this. I had to say something.

And I do not think two wrongs make a right. But I almost laughed when a few here came to your defense. Did they ever criticize you when you went off on a fellow believer?

And I do think these types of posts are bullying. No, you can't really harm someone over the internet, but who wants to get a tongue lashing from you? It makes a person hesitant to speak their mind.

You see, I don't get all that upset when folks disagree with me, I expect it. People disagree, people have opinions. I can listen to others opinions without accusing them of not rightly dividing the word and other such criticisms. I just present what I think is the truth.

You can pick apart my words if you want to, it is just more of the same ill behaviour. The fact is, I have presented many scriptures that contradict your teaching.

For instance, John 7:37-39.

John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

You have taught that the Jews in early Acts had to repent of killing Jesus and be baptized to receive the Holy Ghost.

In these verses, first, it is clear that they apply to Jew and Gentile alike "any man". Second, verse 39 makes it clear that the determining factor in receiving the Holy Ghost is believeing. "they that believe on him".

Now "believe on him" is the gospel. Do I really need to post half a dozen verses that show that we are told to believe on Jesus for forgiveness of sins and everlasting life?

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

This last verse really throws a wrench into your teaching, because Paul reveals what John the Baptist was preaching, that "they should believe on him which should come after him, this is, on Christ Jesus". That is the gospel.

And this was Paul preaching to Gentiles, and was showing that John the Baptist preached the same gospel to the Jews as he taught to the Gentiles.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

These verses are about having forgiveness of sins and receiving everlasting life, not the restoration of the kingdom.

So, John the Baptist was preaching the gospel of receiving forgiveness of sins and everlasting life if you can accept it. And premio58 was correct about Mark 16:16. If you only read the first half of the verse, then yes, you would believe it necessary to be baptized to be saved. But when you read the whole verse, it is made clear that believeing is the factor in salvation, not baptism.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Jesus did not mention baptism whatsoever in John 7:38. Now, if baptism were necessary to both have remission of sins and receive the Holy Ghost for the Jews (remember, these verses are addressed to "any man"), then Jesus left out a very important detail. However, if believeing only is required to receive the Holy Ghost, then Jesus did not leave out anything.

There, I have presented solid scripture that contradicts your teachings. You can respond any way you wish.

Last edited by Winman; 06-23-2009 at 05:53 PM.