[George]

Originally Posted by Julianus

"Aloha too, George
thanks for filling in the 'obvious' blanks in my post.

As you have eagerly & effectively demonstrated, this forum enjoys the audience of diligent readers - and you have my deepest respect for showing yourself being just such.

However, your 25 precepts were not challenged. Yet even those can only be acknowledged/believed by someone who has experienced through personal 'revelation / quickening' by the Holy Spirit, the Truth they contain. To anyone else they might seem to be just fables, hearsay, old wive's tales - anecdotes at best. Hence the reluctance of the people in the world to 'believe' what you, me and many more KNOW to be true.

Our Faith doesn't come from books or stories. Neither did the Faith of those during the time of Christ. Whilst it's easy for us to quote plenty of 'dead' (not yet quickened by the Holy Spirit in our own life) Scriptures to construct a case against the world, they will not have a bar of it - until God reveals Himself to them personally.

And whilst our time is being taken up discussing the 'depths of doctrines, confirming yet again how satan wages war against God & the saints' ... corrupt preachers, mega-churches and modern-day-apostles mislead the gullible masses to 'gild' their pockets.

.... may God richly bless you and open other avenues for effectual banter .... ;-)"

Aloha again, Julianus,

There are some things, in regards to your last remarks, that I must take issue with.

You said:

"However, your 25 precepts were not challenged. Yet even those can only be acknowledged/believed by someone who has experienced through personal 'revelation / quickening' by the Holy Spirit, the Truth they contain. To anyone else they might seem to be just fables, hearsay, old wive's tales - anecdotes at best. Hence the reluctance of the people in the world to 'believe' what you, me and many more KNOW to be true."

Those "precepts" that I listed http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...27&postcount=5 are not "mine" (not my "personal convictions" or "personal revelations"). They are major Doctrines found in the Scripture of Truth. They are not dependent upon me accepting them as truth or believing in them. God's word is not dependent upon our response or recognition. It is TRUE no matter what any body thinks or does with it!

It does not matter a whit whether anyone else "thinks" that God's word is "just fables, hearsay, old wive's tales - anecdotes at best." The Scriptures stand apart from mankind's acknowledgment, and are in no way dependent upon our response. The Scriptures are God's words from God's own mouth. Words by which He formed and created the world, the sun, the moon, the stars, etc.

God's words are in no way dependent upon us for legitimacy or efficacy. God gives His word (by inspiration) for our benefit, but it is not dependent upon us - in reality we are dependent upon it.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

You said:

"Our Faith doesn't come from books or stories. Neither did the Faith of those during the time of Christ."

On the contrary - OUR FAITH DOES COME FROM BOOKS - BOOKS that can only be found in the Holy Bible. As a matter of fact - Our faith is totally dependent on the BOOKS of the Bible. [Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.] And the people in Christ's time were told to "search the scriptures" (the Books of the Bible) by the Lord Himself in regards to eternal life and their testimony about WHO Jesus christ truly was. [John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.]

You said:

"Whilst it's easy for us to quote plenty of 'dead' (not yet quickened by the Holy Spirit in our own life) Scriptures to construct a case against the world, they will not have a bar of it - until God reveals Himself to them personally."

I beg to strongly differ with you that God's words are: "dead Scriptures" - "not yet quickened by the Holy Spirit in our own life"!

God's words (the Holy Scriptures) are NOT DEAD! They are NOT DEAD - until suddenly "quickened by the Holy Spirit in our own life"! God's words are totally independent from our response to them. They DO NOT only "come alive" when we are "quickened by the Holy Spirit". On the contrary - God's words are "ALIVE" and the Holy Spirit uses them to "quicken" us at the moment of our salvation. [1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which LIVETH and abideth for ever.]

Except for our own personal welfare (Eternal & Temporal), a person’s “personal convictions” matter very little; out of six billion people inhabiting this earth – what does it matter WHAT I “THINK”? What does matter is: WHAT DOES GOD’S WORD SAY!

Matthew 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

What I “think” (or what anyone else “thinks”) is not that important, but we have a Book that claims to contain the very words of God. Now God’s words are all important, for they are “the words of eternal life”:

John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

We have a Saviour (The Lord Jesus Christ) who is UNCHANGEABLE:

“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”[Hebrews 13:8]

What I “think” or “believe”, or what anybody else “thinks” or “believes” about Christ, is immaterial as to WHO He really is! If my “personal convictions” about the Lord Jesus Christ do not line up with what the Holy Scriptures SAY about Him – my “personal convictions” are worthless {No matter how sincere I may “believe” in them!)

We have God’s word (the Holy “Scripture of Truth”) and what we do with it is immaterial to God. His word is going to accomplish what God intended for it to do – with, or without us!

Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Psalms 105:8 He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.
Psalms 119:89 LAMED. For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.
Psalms 119:160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.
Isaiah 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1 Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

God’s word is not DEAD – It’s ALIVE! [John 6:68; 1Peter 1:23] And if the vast majority of mankind CHOOSES not to believe it, that doesn’t change the nature of His word – not one iota! If most of the Christians in America and the rest of the Western world choose to IGNORE it (regardless of their “personal convictions”), that doesn’t mean that it is not powerful or effective in the lives of those Christians who have CHOSEN to BELIEVE it!

I have “personal convictions” about a lot of issues: “homeschooling”; “when the church began”; “women’s hair”; the “headship of a father and husband”; “drinking alcohol”; “smoking cigarettes”; “when the soul begins”; “how a marriage should be conducted”; “ a woman’s place in the home & church”; “the conduct of children”; “Christian Patriotism”; “the purpose of tongues, signs, & wonders”; "healing"; “pastoral authority”; “church hierarchy in modern American churches”; “church administration”; “the modern American church makeup & conduct” (emulating the world’s institutions – down to the “nursery”, the division of families into “Classes” {like the government schools}, “young people’s groups”, “teens”, “young adults”, the “unmarrieds”, the “married without children”, the married with children, etc., etc.); "the kingdom of heaven & the Kingdom of God"; "Dispensations"; "How to rightly divide the word of truth"; etc.; etc.

But my “personal convictions are NOT THE SAME as the Holy word of God – which is “immutable”, “unchangeable”, Holy, perfect and without error! Some of my “personal convictions” may be WRONG – but God’s word is always RIGHT:

“For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.” [Psalms 33:4]

In the 50 years that I have been saved, I have “changed” some of my “personal convictions” (I’ve ADDED some and DROPPED others), but during all that time God’s word NEVER CHANGED! “Personal convictions” are fine – as long as we don’t confuse them with God’s Holy, unchangeable word.

We are NOT born again (saved) because of our “personal convictions”. We are saved because:
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Personal BELIEF in the Gospel, in the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in His redeeming work on Calvary is what makes it possible to receive the free gift of eternal salvation. And God has chosen the written word as the “vehicle” (the means) to accomplish that end.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

If you hold that “personal conviction”, well praise God – but don’t make the mistake of thinking that “your personal convictions” are what saves you. Our Salvation is based on the work of the Lord Jesus Christ on Calvary, and on our believing the “record” - the Scripture of Truth, i.e. The Holy Bible. Our salvation is dependent upon God’s word – NOT our “personal convictions”.