Thread: The sons of God
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Old 06-05-2009, 12:19 PM
CKG CKG is offline
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Warner Robins, Georgia
Posts: 197

Originally Posted by kevinvw View Post
The Bible says we were dead and had to be made alive, and that we by nature fulfilled the lust of the flesh and were the children of wrath.

We are said to be dead in the trespasses and sins, and Peter tells us that it is the Holy Spirit that quickens us. The Holy Spirit gives us the new birth that quickens our spirit. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Jesus had both births simultaneously. He was born of water (physically) and of blood (God's blood, spiritually). He never walked after the flesh because He had the power of God, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have. Just like we can walk after the lusts of the flesh even though we have been born of the Spirit and have been covered in God's blood, but through the Spirit of God we can overcome our flesh, the same as Jesus did and we are told that Jesus will help us do it.

Not everything is spelled out letter for letter or word for word.
Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins

Most people read this verse to say “And you hath he quickened, who were born spiritually dead”. This verse says nothing about our birth state. As a matter of fact our being dead is attributed to our trespasses and sins.

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Notice we walked according to the world, the prince of the power of the air and the lusts of our flesh (our 3 enemies – the world, flesh and the devil). It is because we walked according to the world, the prince of the power of the air and the lusts of our flesh that we were by nature children of wrath. That is not a statement about a “sin nature”. When it says by nature it means the natural outcome or result of walking according to the world, the prince of the power of the air and the lusts of our flesh is we are children of wrath.

Paul said “For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.” (Romans 7:9)

There was a point in Paul’s life when he became aware of his sinfulness and he says he died. God only holds us accountable for what we know. Babies, children to a certain age and severely mentally handicapped people have no knowledge of good and evil. They are not held accountable. If they die before the age of accountability they go to be with the Lord. When the children of Israel refused to enter the land God said those 20 years old and upward would perish

Numbers 14:29-31 Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward which have murmured against me. Doubtless ye shall not come into the land, concerning which I sware to make you dwell therein, save Caleb the son of Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun. But your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, them will I bring in, and they shall know the land which ye have despised.

Why would those under 20 not perish?

Deut 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

I don’t know what the age of accountability is and it probably varies with individuals, but when a person reaches the age of knowing good and evil they are now accountable for their sins.

Sin is something we do.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law

When we have knowingly sinned (after reaching the age of accountability) we are now dead in trespasses and sins. We have the death sentence on us. We are then children of wrath, because unless a person gets saved they will perish; experience the second death. At the Great White Throne judgment people will be judged for what they should've done, but didn't and what they did, but shouldn't have.

Jesus said we had to be born again. If we were spiritually dead like you say he would’ve said we need a resurrection, not a birth. His point was we’ve all been born of the flesh, but to enter into the kingdom of God we need to be born of the Spirit. Peter said we were quickened by the Spirit. We now have the life of God in us.

There is a raising from the dead, but it’s after the death we died with Christ.

Romans 6
1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: