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Old 07-28-2009, 01:52 PM
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George George is offline
 
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Default Re: "Webster's Dictionary 1828"

Amanda S Post #15:
Quote:
Bro Schwenke said: {Post #2}
Quote:
"I appeal to the dictionary only to clarify what the Bible already says. We must have a standard of defining words, so that we don't talk past each other. So, if I cannot give a precise definition to a word, I look it up in the dictionary, test the dictionary with the Scripture to see if the Scripture agrees with how the word is defined, and when it agrees, I use it to bring clarification to the argument, and to keep the argument focused on the correct thing.

So the final authority for doctrine, etc is the AV. The Dictionary brings clarification to the words we use in our dialogues so that we can understand what we are saying to each other. It also helps us understand how the Bible uses words, particularly those that have multiple meanings, and particularly those that are being misused in modern language."
Bro. George said: {Post #13}
Quote:
{Having said that - Webster's 1828 Dictionary is far superior to any modern dictionary when it comes to defining Bible words. It just shouldn't be used as a "FINAL AUTHORITY" when it comes to Bible words of "spiritual importance".}

Any word in the Bible that has any spiritual significance at all should be determined by a comparison of Scripture with Scripture.Webster is OK on lots of words that do not require spiritual discernment, but since he was "off" on some of his doctrine - his personal beliefs influenced his "definition" of some words.

I don't know if you have Swordsearcher (Electronic Bible Concordance), if you do, there is a searchable copy of Webster's 1828 Dictionary within the Software; and it is a great resource for Bible study {even for those of us that are not Literate. }
It looks all the world to me like both George and Schwenke agree? Where is the disagreement here?
Re: "Bible Studies" > Webster's Dictionary 1828 > Post #13

George actually said: {Post #13}
Quote:
Aloha brother,

”Your comments are most welcome and your insight on Noah Webster is "right on"! I am aware that Webster made his own translation of the Bible (that never went anywhere), and that is one of the main reasons I caution people when using his 1828 Dictionary. {Having said that - Webster's 1828 Dictionary is far superior to any modern dictionary when it comes to defining Bible words. It just shouldn't be used as a "FINAL AUTHORITY" when it comes to Bible words of "spiritual importance".}

Any word in the Bible that has any spiritual significance at all should be determined by a comparison of Scripture with Scripture.Webster is OK on lots of words that do not require spiritual discernment, but since he was "off" on some of his doctrine - his personal beliefs influenced his "definition" of some words.

I don't know if you have Swordsearcher (Electronic Bible Concordance), if you do, there is a searchable copy of Webster's 1828 Dictionary within the Software; and it is a great resource for Bible study {even for those of us that are not Literate.}”
Amanda. When you "quoted me" you LEFT OUT (In "blue" above) part of my "quote" - a very important part where I CAUTIONED brother Ripdood about using Webster's 1828 Dictionary.

I am answering you inquiry because I may have left the wrong impression with my the last paragraph in my Post #13. When I was speaking of "a great resource for Bible study" I was referring to Swordsearcher Bible Software - NOT Webster's 1828 Dictionary. But after reading the paragraph over, I can see where I was not as clear as I should have been in expressing what I meant.

It would have been much more informative had you also included my Post #7 in regards to this Thread, since that Post "qualified" (more clearly) what I believe in regards to Webster's 1828 Dictionary.

I will cite that Post here and now (just in case you missed it):

Re: "Bible Studies" > Webster's Dictionary 1828 > Post #7

George said:
Quote:
Aloha brother Gary,

I'm with you 100% per cent of the way brother! The Bible is it's own "BEST DICTIONARY"! And when it comes to spiritual issues NEVER trust Webster, or Strong, or some Lexicon. The following are some comments (on this Forum) that I have made before on this subject:

Quote:
"For most "Old English" words I have used Webster's 1828 Dictionary - However, when it comes to any words that may have significant spiritual meaning I always use the Bible only (words like: soul, spirit, heart, mind, conscience, etc.). When it comes to spiritual meanings of some words Noah Webster may not have understood their meaning - because God may not have shown him."

"I did not obtain these definitions from Webster's Dictionary or Strong's Concordance or any book, article, etc. written by another man. When it comes to spiritual matters Webster & Strong are very little help, since only God can give us the discernment, understanding, and wisdom to understand His words. These definitions are the result of searching the Scriptures for over a year in pursuit of a study that I have done on the Biblical heart of man:"

"Webster's 1828 English Dictionary may be of some "help" when looking up a so-called "archaic" English word; but I have made it a practice, for over 40 years now, that whenever a word in the Bible has any "spiritual significance" at all, to never trust Webster or the Lexicons - instead I have relied on the Holy Spirit to reveal to me what God has to say about a particular subject or issue by searching the scriptures and comparing scripture with scripture.
"

"I have been studying the King James Bible for 50 years now (40 of those years intensively). From 1968 up to 1996 I used either Young's Concordance or Strong's Concordance to look up English words in the Bible and to compare scripture with scripture (NEVER as a Lexicon i.e. to get the "meanings" of words). I can testify to you here and now that using Swordsearcher hasn't made my study just 10 times faster and more convenient - it has made my Bible study any wheres from 10 to 100 times faster and more convenient!"

"The word “spirit” (pertaining only to mankind – and excluding God’s Spirit or evil spirits, etc.) is mentioned approximately 144 times in 134 Verses in the Holy Bible. To accurately describe something that we cannot see, but accept by faith in the Scriptures, is extremely difficult. Webster’s Dictionary of 1828 is not that much help here either, because of the difficulty distinguishing between the soul and spirit (Check out Webster's "definition")."
When it comes to any word in the Bible which has any spiritual significance I do NOT recommend going to Webster's Dictionary. Search out the words (Scripture with Scripture) to find God's definition. When you have determined in your heart, mind, spirit and soul what the meaning is, you might check out Webster's as a comparison - but I recommend that you do not go to Webster's first - it might "influence" your search (without even knowing it.)

For your information, when it comes to the Biblical words soul, spirit, heart, mind, and conscience, Webster's will not be much help. Looking up the words and comparing Scripture with Scripture will give you a much more "accurate" definition than Webster.
A short "search" on the AV1611 Bible Forums demonstrates that I have made the following quotes (and probably more) over the past year and a half in regards to Webster's 1828 Dictionary:

"I caution people when using his 1828 Dictionary"; "And when it comes to spiritual issues NEVER trust Webster, or Strong, or some Lexicon."; "When it comes to spiritual matters Webster & Strong are very little help,"; "I have made it a practice, for over 40 years now, that whenever a word in the Bible has any "spiritual significance" at all, to never trust Webster or the Lexicons "; "Webster’s Dictionary of 1828 is not that much help here either"; "When it comes to any word in the Bible which has any spiritual significance I do NOT recommend going to Webster's Dictionary. "; "I recommend that you do not go to Webster's first - it might "influence" your search (without even knowing it.)"; "For your information, when it comes to the Biblical words soul, spirit, heart, mind, and conscience, Webster's will not be much help."

You stated: "It looks all the world to me like both George and Schwenke agree? Where is the disagreement here?"

I have gone out of my way to CAUTION and WARN the brethren about NOT DEPENDING on Webster's 1828 Dictionary (or the Concordances and Lexicons) when searching for the "meaning" of the words of Scripture; perhaps you can show me in Schwenke's statements where he has WARNED people NOT TO DEPEND on the Dictionary, or Concordances, or Lexicons for the "meaning" of God's words
- I don't see any words of CAUTION in his statement.

Schwenke refers to Webster's 1828 as a "STANDARD" -
Webster's 1828 is NOT "The STANDARD" - when it comes to Bible words of any "spiritual significance"; if it is to be considered "The STANDARD", then it becomes our "FINAL AUTHORITY" in all matters dealing with the "meanings" of all Bible words. Schwenkie did NOT make that DISTINCTION clear when he referred to Webster's as being the "STANDARD".

I do not intend to drag this discussion out. The main reason I have responded to your inquiry is the fact that I was not as clear and precise as I would have liked to have been in the last paragraph in my Post #13 (this Thread). I hope that I cleared up any "misunderstanding" I may have given you (or any one else) about what I believe to be "
a great resource for Bible study". I was speaking in regards to "Swordsearcher Bible Software" - NOT Webster's 1828 Dictionary.