Hi all,
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Not at all. The Scripture was always correct. It is apparent that some presentations of the Scripture are corrupt. It meant "heaven" ever since Moses wrote it, and it was "heaven" in English all along. The change to "heavens" in English only happened in the twentieth century. Clearly it is a corruption.
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So you're saying the scripture was always correct, even though it is plural in Hebrew, but its an error to retain the plural when translating. Sorry, but that's not exactly convincing.
Apart from Hebrew, "heavens" in this verse is much older than the 20th century. The Peshitta has it as a plural, as does the Spanish RV, both of which various KJV-only supporters have claimed are "the word of God" in those languages, and both predate the KJV. As for English, at least Young's Literal and Darby translated it as a plural before the 20th century, and there may be others but I am traveling and unable to access my fuller notes.
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What lengths are you willing to go to prove the KJB wrong?
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Is the idea that Gen 1:1 is an overview really such a "length"? I am not arguing that the KJV is wrong, I am challenging the idea that it is wrong to translate the plural as a plural in this verse. If the KJV translated it as a plural, and the NKJV as a singular, I have no doubt that you would be opposing translating the plural Hebrew as a singular in this instance.
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Then how do you know the Hebrew means "heavens"? I know it must have meant "heaven" because I know I have an accurate English Bible.
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I know because the exact same Hebrew is translated as "heavens" in dozens of other verses in the KJV.
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So, none of this "all versions including the KJV" stuff: no, now we see it: the KJB is in error. I don't spend my time bashing modern versions, but some people seem to delight in taking up time and space doing anything to bash the KJB.
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I am not saying the KJV is in error here, I am challenging the idea that the NKJV must be in error for translating a plural as a plural. As for you spending time bashing modern versions, you yourself started this entire discussion on Gen 1:1 by saying "The NKJV already messes up Genesis 1:1..."
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you are applying a false meaning to the Hebrew today that did not exist there in the distant past
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Huh? The exact same Hebrew is translated as "heavens" in dozens of places in the KJV.
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It is quite Islamic!....It is like the Black Islamic cult saying that all white people are devils.
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I expect constant ad hominem from you, but please try to make it comprehensible.
Hi PeterAV,
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There are many, many times that a plural is translated into a singular when using a different language.
I would hazard a guess that every translator does this, if they are to make proper sense of the sentence in context, and in this case, biblical sense.
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I agree. However, just because it legitimately happens at times does not mean we should condemn when it doesn't happen. We shouldn't oppose a rule being used just because there are occasionally exceptions to that rule, especially when following the rule does not result in any sort of error.
Hi Steve,
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Brian, what would be the singular word for heaven in Genesis 1:1 ?
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In Hebrew, the suffix "-im" (pronounced "eem") indicates a plural ending, as "-s" does for English. The singular form of this word (without the "-im" suffix) appears in verses that have both "heaven" and "heavens" in the same verse, such as Deut 10:14, 1 Kings 8:27, 2 Chron 2:6, 2 Chron 6:18, and Neh 9:6.
God bless,
Brian