Quote:
Originally Posted by George
Aloha brother,
I appreciate your sentiments, but there are times when we must "contend" for the faith. I have been a member of this Forum for almost 7 months and during that time we have dealt with a number (approximately 12 or so) of "kooks", "Sophists", "blasphemers", "heretics" and "reprobates".
Although we are called to preach, teach, and to warn (for edification) - We are also called to admonish, reprove, and rebuke (for edification & correction).
I find it very instructive that since “gophgetter” joined our Forum that he has been the center of one “controversy” after another, and he has generated a great deal of strife, confusion and doubt {I wonder where THAT comes from?}
When he posted his first "Thread" on: "Who Was The First One to Teach 'Once Saved, always Saved'?" Under > AV1611 Bible Forums > Doctrine. He "insinuated" that those of us who believe in ETERNAL SALVATION (i.e. ETERNAL SECURITY) are False Prophets; False Teachers; and we have embraced a "damnable heresy" i.e. ETERNAL SALVATION! [The Accuser of the brethren - Revelation 12:10]
He then went on to state: Did you see the words "eternal life" (or even life) in the scripture verses "gophgetter" cited? Satan didn't promise them that they would have "Eternal Life" or "Everlasting Life" - he told them: "ye shall not surely die" (and he lied!). And so we have this stranger (a new-comer), "gophgetter", privately interpreting Scripture and making it say something that it didn't say (that is if words mean anything). "Gophgetter" ADDED to the words of God in order to PROVE his "false doctrine" i.e. damnable heresy!
"Gophgetter" continued on:
"Gophgetter" insults us by calling us "KIDS": ("Are ya ready kids?") I'm 68 years old {Saved for 50 years - preaching & teaching the Scripture of Truth for 40 years} I'm definitely NOT "a kid" by any stretch of the imagination. But that's not as important as the "damnable heresy" that he has embraced and is promoting: He stated that Satan . . . "He was the first one to teach that you can never lose eternal life." "Gophgetter" is impugning the truthfulness and integrity of Almighty God and His Holy word! He is attributing the doctrine of Eternal Security to Satan! And he has testified that this doctrine (that most of us on this Forum believe) is a damnable heresy!
[1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.]
On three (3) occasions I have asked “gophgetter” to judge us, as to whether we are False Prophets and False Teachers and whether we have embraced a "damnable heresy" and he has ignored my inquiries. He refuses to "man up" and answer truthfully and testify to what he really believes about most of us, instead he ignores my inquiries and continues to "engage" some of the brethren in strifes and debate [2Corinthians 12:20]. All the while feigning "innocence" (WHO me? WHAT did I say? WHY are you so upset?).
The man is clearly a HERETIC (according to the Scriptures) and I for one will not "engage" him in any more conversations. [Titus 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;] "Gophgetter" has gotten far more than just one or two "admonitions" from the brethren and he still persists with his false doctrine and heresy.
I shall have more to say about Eternal Salvation and Eternal Security in a later "Thread", until then I will make this observation about the kooks, Sophists, blasphemers, heretics and reprobates that have shown up on this Forum. They ALWAYS come with a personal "agenda", which means that they will have to post several "Threads" (Not Posts) in a short time in order to get across their perverse ideas. I have been a member of this Forum for nearly 7 Months (approximately 25 weeks) During that time I have posted seven (7) "Threads". "Gophgetter" has been a member of this Forum for a little over 2 weeks and he has already posted five (5) "Threads". (The more "Threads" in a short time is a sure "sign" of one of the above offenders).
Check out some of the other "old-timers" on this Forum and you will see that they are here to "edify" and be "edified". They are not here just to generate controversy, strife, and debate, and you can usually tell that by the number of "Threads" they have posted (over several months) that they are not trying to "dominate" the Forum, but are looking to edify and be edified. There are some really knowledgeable brethren on this Forum, most of whom are also striving to obey God's word. However, there are also some people who have not been saved for very long (and who may not be "grounded" in the faith) and we cannot allow "false doctrines" or "Heresies" to go unchallenged (for their benefit and edification). It is our duty to earnestly contend for the faith when those who would subvert and pervert God's Holy words join this Forum.
Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
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Brother George,
This post was not addressed to me but it was directed at me, so I would like to answer some of these accusations. You said that my
first thread was "Who was the first one to teach once saved, always saved?". This is not true. My first thread was "Peculairities of the Bible" posted on 8-06-08. My second thread was "As the days of Noah were" posted on 8-09-08. "Who was the first one to teach Once saved, always saved" (my third thread) was posted on 8-10-08.
I don't know if you realize it or not but you are contradicting your self in the same post. First you say that I am calling you a false prophet, then you say that I'm not "man" enough to own up and call you a false prophet. Make up your mind brother. Which way is it?
As far as calling you a "kid", I apologized for this on the thread "Who was the first to teach once saved, always saved" on post #9. I also explained the situation that was going on at the time that influenced me to use that phrase. Let me be straight with you. I have offered my apology to you. If you can not find it in your heart to forgive me, then according to Jesus Himself, you are not forgiven.
Matt. 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
6:15 But
if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
You said that I am clearly a heretick and you lumped me in with reprobates and blasphemers. You also said that it is your duty to contend for the faith. If this is true, then you should have no problem answering the following questions. If I am a heretick, that means that I have said things that do not line up with sound doctrine, in other words, the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. I have posted these questions before but never got a straight answer. But since you obviously have the truth, you should be able to handle them. Here we go.
Question 1
Romans 8:13 For
if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Is this verse written to believers? If so, why is Paul warning those who are saved and secure about the consequences of living after the flesh?
Question 2
James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word,
which is able to save your souls.
Is this verse written to believers? If so, why is James instructing believers to receive the engrafted word that is able to save their soul if their soul is already saved?
Question 3
James 5:19
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth
the sinner from the error of his way
shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
Is James addressing believers in the church? If so, why would he use the words "save a soul from death" if a believer has eternal life and can never lose it?
Question 4
2 Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren,
give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
Is this written to believers who are saved? If so, why would Peter instruct us to make our calling and election sure, if it is already sure and we can do nothing to influence it, positive or negative?
Question 5
Matthew 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Who are these sayings addressed to? Do they apply to us? If so, at what time? Before we get saved or after? What if we hold unforgiveness in our heart towards someone until the day we die? Can we really make heaven our home with unforgiven sin?
Here's the challenge George. If you cannot answer these questions directly and give scripture to support what you say, you have no right to call me a heretick or reprobate. If you can't answer these questions, then quit whining and hurling out unsupported accusations. I'm here because I love the truth. Not to debate with you. Debate is a work of the flesh and I am not here to glorify the flesh. I am here to glorify God and His word.
Peace