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Old 06-26-2009, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish View Post
Bro. Winman,
I have been reading your first post, the article you shared by Pastor Lee Spencer, I think he brings out some good points on Ultra-dispensationalism.

"Personally, I have watched helplessly as a few close associates and long-time friends have embraced this untenable position. They soon become arrogant, hostile and condemning. Their self-imposed separation tends eventually to lead to bitterness and isolation...

At the risk of being redundant, it is very important for the sake of emphasis, that we repeat once more the tragedies of ultra-dispensationalism. No matter what one believes about how people get saved in other dispensations, the dispensation we have to deal with is this dispensation. Our plea to unsaved men is not based upon what we believe about other dispensations.

To major on teaching men about other ways of salvation in other dispensations clouds the present issue of how they must be saved in this dispensation (Acts 4:12). It is a cleverly designed ploy of Satan to keep us focused on the unimportant, while souls slip by us into an eternity without Christ. Precious souls, for whom Christ died, are dependent upon our giving them what they need to know about how they can be saved today.

Furthermore, it needlessly divides brothers in Christ. It feeds the starving ego (which should be dead - Romans 6) of a believer looking for recognition as a teacher of the "whole counsel of God." It is a form of one-upmanship that in reality makes that one someone who will be called the least in the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 5:19). It eventually affects one's relationship with other believers.

A man can have right doctrine, and still live wrong, which sadly describes the problem of many who seek to follow Christ today. But a man cannot have wrong doctrine, and still live right. Works for salvation in any dispensation is wrong, and it puts stumbling blocks in the paths of others who are seeking God's truth."
I've been watching exchanges between Tony and Bro. Parrish and others to try to find out where the truth lie. "Hyperdispensationalism" which has progressed to "ultradispensationalism" in one corner. "Moderate" dispensationalism in the other corner. The boxing metaphor is intentional. The bully is in one particular corner but I won't name names. I don't think I have to. Think about that.

From corner one, I am waiting to find out if there is such a strict law of grace that it precludes believers from being saved if they don't perfectly understand that salvation is by grace alone, not of works of any kind (If such a strict standard applies then I was not saved for years after I thought I was). I don't know the answer. I will find out, God willing. What does the following quote from Winman's preacher mean? What I just said above or does it mean that this teacher thinks "hyperdispensationalism" allows for sin since we are under grace and excuses it? His argument about dividing the body of Christ, starving ego, recognition as a teacher, one-upmanship doesn't hold water for me. That is the argument of the status quo. It has no bearing on the truth; it's irrelevant.


Quote:
To major on teaching men about other ways of salvation in other dispensations clouds the present issue of how they must be saved in this dispensation (Acts 4:12). It is a cleverly designed ploy of Satan to keep us focused on the unimportant, while souls slip by us into an eternity without Christ. Precious souls, for whom Christ died, are dependent upon our giving them what they need to know about how they can be saved today.

Furthermore, it needlessly divides brothers in Christ. It feeds the starving ego (which should be dead - Romans 6) of a believer looking for recognition as a teacher of the "whole counsel of God." It is a form of one-upmanship that in reality makes that one someone who will be called the least in the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 5:19). It eventually affects one's relationship with other believers.

A man can have right doctrine, and still live wrong, which sadly describes the problem of many who seek to follow Christ today. But a man cannot have wrong doctrine, and still live right. Works for salvation in any dispensation is wrong, and it puts stumbling blocks in the paths of others who are seeking God's truth."[/I]


Your posts here, Bro. Parrish and brother chette, show me that although you protest that salvation is of faith alone, you don't really believe it. Please tell me, how could you support this twisted teaching in this guys' sermon? Can't you see that his teaching is indicative of the false doctrine that has confused brother Winman? AMEN to that sermon??? It is so full of error and strawmen arguments I honestly don't know where to begin, but I'll start here:

Quote:
Men are not responsible for the revelations which God has given in past dispensations. These revelations are progressive, and one dispensation's revelations are built upon a former dispensation's, and thus former revelations are instructive for each succeeding dispensation.

In each dispensation man has been justified by faith. They believed what God said in each dispensation. That is the key. Did they believe in the crucifiction, resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ, the Son of God in previous dispensations? Of course they didn't. It was a MYSTERY!!!
"These revelations are progressive???

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

Quote:
These revelations are progressive, and one dispensation's revelations are built upon a former dispensation's, and thus former revelations are instructive for each succeeding dispensation.
Instructive, yes. Progressive, absolutely not!

Are you really going to say amen to a sermon filled with straw-man arguments? A word study on grace? This is elementary. God's grace is the only reason any human being is saved in any dispensation. Ten year old christians know this. Do I have to copy and paste Hebrews and James here?

Is this one gospel only? Are you like Whirlwind? Will you defy the plain words of scripture for a private interpretation? Winman? Whirlwind was banned for questioning the inerrancy of the scriptures. What's the difference between this and that?

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

I have great respect for the likes of Ironside which you linked in another thread, Bro. Parrish. I'll be studying this, but I have to say that the arrogance, hostility and condemnation has not exactly been coming from Tonybones' corner. I have seen more kindness and charity come from this man than from some others on this board, I have to include myself in that.