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Old 05-12-2009, 03:56 PM
Winman Winman is offline
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 464

Bro George

Thanks for both of those great posts. And I did not take offence. And perhaps you may misundertand what I meant to say. I completely agree with you that we are to have both the qualities of a child and an adult.

1 Cor 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

So, I did not for one moment mean to imply that we should be childlike in every aspect of our Christian walk. We are to study and grow always.

What I meant was that sometimes a person can over analyze scripture. Instead of reading a verse that is very simple and straightforward to understood, some try to spiritualize it, and make it mean more than it really does.

The verse in question was John 12:32

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

To which Chette replied:

Who was John written too? Is it before the Cross or After the cross? Why did Jesus Say what he said in light of the OT?

right division and context is needed in such verses. it in no wise teaches Calvinism
To me, "all men" means just that "all men". Simple. As I pointed out, it does not say that all men who are drawn will be saved. This misunderstanding some people get results from not reading the verse straightforward, and reading into it things it does not say.

John 6:44 does say that no man can come to Jesus unless the Father draws him.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Now, if a person assumes that only persons drawn are saved, then you have the Calvinist view. But even that is wrong, because John 12:32 says all men will be drawn, therefore all would be saved.

So, this is reading into the verse what it does not say. Sometimes you have to simply read the verse as is.

Now, I appreciate your post about failure #3, how people are not properly taught to study the Bible, and I hope you do not take offence, but you can over-study. Maybe that is not the right way to say it. What I mean is that sometimes you have to take scripture for simply what is says directly, and not always assume it has some greater or different meaning than what it actually says.

I hope you understand what I mean. Sometimes we fail to see the forest for the trees. I think you might understand what I mean by that.

But your posts were great and I enjoyed them both.

Last edited by Winman; 05-12-2009 at 04:21 PM.