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Old 07-08-2009, 01:20 PM
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greenbear greenbear is offline
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 492

Originally Posted by Brother Tim View Post
To get this thread back on balance (or to bring it to an end), I would like to summarize my position on the various points brought out (that at least have something to do with the topic ):

1. Ham did SOMETHING that so offended his father, Noah, that Noah spoke a curse upon the decendents of ONE of Ham's children, Canaan. What that deed was is not explicitly explained in the passage or elsewhere in the Scriptures. Sufficient, therefore, is that we accept that it had to have been a gross offense. To attempt to define what it was is nothing more than speculation.

2. The decendents of Canaan settled in the region that later became known by his name. It was the land later given by God to Abraham.

3. Because this is a curse spoken by a man and not God, we cannot tell the duration or the extent of its application. There is Scriptural evidence of the curse being in effect to some degree. [Example: the Gibeonites] To say that the curse is still in effect is not provable, primarily due to inability to clearly distinguish the decendents of each affected party. [such as: Who today are the decendents of Canaan? Where are the tents of Shem? etc]

4. It is Biblically clear that Black Africans are not the decendents of Canaan, and therefore the past and present slavery of Blacks by Whites has nothing whatsoever to do with this curse.

An additional personal observation: The intermingling of the decendents of Noah is so extensive today that it is impossible to divide the peoples of this earth into each of the three sons' families. The possible exception would be some "nations" such as the Jews that have maintained isolation as a practice. Even there, the scattered ten tribes are likely lost.

I would greatly appreciate each of the principal posters on this thread, in particular, Chette, to comment on my four points.
Am I one of the principal posters on this thread? As usual, nothing's ever quite clear with you. If so, I believe I have already addressed your issues on my previous posts. Even after I did, I still received a rebuke from you. Even though I corrected myself immediately, after the fact I have received corrections or rebukes from three or four different people now on this thread and one other person has stopped communicating with me, I believe because of this thread. I have received no acknowledgment from these people as to what I have actually said. As far as the "race" issue, I don't know how anybody could come out more clearly about what they believe than I did on the Race and Love thread. I didn't even say anything about American blacks as being descendants of Canaan. I never said I thought Noah's curse applied to American blacks. I never said Noah's curse meant that white Americans would rule over black Africans. But of course even defending yourself against false accusations about emotionally charged issues like "race" just makes you look even more guilty. So let people think what they will think. I made a foolish statement connecting American black lingo to a speculative idea of the reason for the curse. I apologized profusely, it was an unthinking stupid comment. I have never believed Noah's curse applied to black Americans. But some fail to carefully read the entirety of a person's opinion on a thread.

Brother Tim, you make an insinuating comment about George who wasn't even involved in the thread in any way. You link Chette's opinion with the KKK who used to murder blacks in this country and maybe still might today if they could get away with it, then you lump every body together to address your comments. You accuse Bro. Parish of "disliking" George when he never said that. I may disagree with Bro. Parish on some things he has said in the past and feel he was unkind to the uttermost in what he said about George on this thread but I can't read his heart so I won't make a judgement on whether he likes or dislikes brother George. You are careless with other people's reputations, in my opinion.

Most of my faults are right out there for everybody to see. At times I've been overly opinionated, in your face, unkind and lacking in meekness and grace. But I have always admitted on this forum when I saw I was wrong about something. I don't need other people insinuating untrue faults or opinions to me. Sometimes people seem to lack the mental or spiritual clarity to discern important details which are necessary to come to a full understanding of what a person has actually said. It's real easy to stop short especially if it enhances one's own reputation and position while destroying someone elses. I'm not saying that is what you are doing now and I'm not saying I have never done that here. I just think we need to be aware that human beings have a propensity to do this so we should all be careful in this area.

George has been stalked on this forum for a month now by custer. She has mocked and scorned him so dozens of times. Last night she equated him to Nabal. Of course, she didn't come right out and say it in her own words, it was in the form of a "word study". The ugliest things have come out of this thread and you want to "get this thread back on balance (or to bring it to an end), I would like to summarize my position on the various points brought out (that at least have something to do with the topic ):"

This thread was started by a first time poster who has posted exactly once. If anyone would care to click on her website you can see that she sells "biker chic" apparel including black leather lingerie. Gee, I wonder what her motive could have been in posting this topic? The devil does work among believers to break up fellowships and I believe he has tried to do it here. That's just my discernment, however. But by all means, brother Tim, go on with your attempt to isolate Chette and publicly "out" him as a bigot and a racist because he has a different interpretation or misunderstanding of a passage.

I'm sick with being falsely accused and not even in a direct fashion, directed to "each of the principal posters on this thread, in particular, Chette" but with insinuations that are general. That way if you try to defend yourself you can be accused of being defensive or paranoid. I'm done with this board. And I will NEVER participate on any christian forum again. It is death to the spirit. There are many people here who have shown love and taught clearly and precisely from the Word, and cared enough to put forth the effort to understand what somebody was actually saying, not making assumptions for self-serving purposes. Those people I will take with me in my heart. The rest I will have to forgive their faults as they will have to forgive mine if they are Christ's.