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Old 02-26-2009, 06:05 PM
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Kiwi Christian Kiwi Christian is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Aotearoa
Posts: 242

Originally Posted by Winman View Post
But notice death always involves separation.

So, in this life even the evil enjoy blessings from God, but in Hell they are completely separated from Him and his mercy and blessings.

So, they spend the rest of eternity without Him.
Yes that is the traditional viewpoint. So how do you handle the following passage, you would have to believe "in the presence of the Lamb" is only temporary, yet the context is "for ever and ever":

Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

We believe that our God is omnipresent, but if we teach that the damned are absent from His presence therein could lie a contradiction?

Psalms 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? 8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. 9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; 10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.