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Old 05-11-2008, 11:21 PM
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bibleprotector bibleprotector is offline
 
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To rub it in. "And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it." (Col 2:15)
I think you are saying, as it reads in the false gospel of Nicodemus, that Jesus fought with devils in hell. This is wrong. Jesus overcame the power of devils in the spirit realm at his resurrection, not in hell. Simply because devils are not in hell, but around on the earth and in the air. (There are a certain class of devils under darkness in chains, and a certain class in the shaft which leads to hell under Apollyon).

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You must have missed that the passage which speaks of him preaching to the spirits in prison (the very passage you are arguing about) talks about him preaching to the spirits who were disobedient during the days in which Noah was building the ark (which certainly is not talking about Abraham and Moses)?
Actually, the passage in 1 Peter is talking about the righteous people from before the time of Noah who were “sometime disobedient”. That is, of the general nature of Adam’s sin, though good people, as may be applied to any person who was not obeying the law of God, though who was by nature following it, because they always had their conscience. It is also referring to any righteous person who died before the crucifixion of Christ. The connection between the mention of "Noah" on Earth is not absolute to the people dwelling in the prison, that is, that all Old Testament folk were there, as typified by Noah and his family. You will see that Noah did go and get drunk, or David commit adultery, thus being sometime disobedient, yet they were both there reserved of God.

Just because it does not mention Abraham means nothing. It doesn’t mention Abel either. But we know that Abel was there, and that it afterwards was called Abraham’s Bosom.

The eight souls that were saved on the ark is referring to Noah’s family, the spirits in prison is referring to all the pre-Crucifixion righteous. Obviously, souls are active on the Earth, but in Abraham’s Bosom they were having a rest (i.e. comforted, as dwelling in a bosom). The division between spirit and soul is complementary, not contradictory.

Thus, "For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit." (1 Peter 4:6) means that the people were spiritually alive, but physically dead. This is in no way a contradiction. They all had a choice, those people, to believe or not to believe when Christ preached to them in prison (i.e. Abraham’s bosom). And they believed.

Since God concluded all people in unbelief, including those righteous he reserved from the Old Testament in paradise, it is clear that they all needed to make a faith decision to believe Christ when he preached to them there.

Unless Christ not only suffered in his physical body (on the cross) but also spiritually (in hell), salvation would not be true. Unless Christ actually conquered death (hell), he did not actually accomplish salvation for the spirit of a man. Unless Christ dealt with the power of sin itself by destroying it altogether, he did not really win the victory. What kind of weak salvation has a Christ who does not go to hell, and cannot overcome the very embodiment of the power of the wrath of God itself. Clearly, you are thinking that hell is Satan’s power. It is not. Hell is God’s power. You see, God made hell, and God has set up the sending of rebellious people to hell. Of course, people have a choice not to go there when they hear the Gospel.

As for a purposeful misreading the real event (not parable) of a beggar named Lazarus and the rich man in hell, why should I comment on that?

Clearly, a person who rejects a present hell, making it merely "hell's waiting room" is actually the one denying hell.

Last edited by bibleprotector; 05-11-2008 at 11:30 PM.