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Old 07-11-2009, 03:09 PM
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George George is offline
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
Posts: 891
Default Re: " Noah and Ham--Noah's Curse"

Brother Tony said:
"We were prevented from meeting with Dr. Ruckman because he refused to address the issue that he was wrong and failed to check out what he endorsed before endorsing it. I quote William of Occam:"


"We were prevented bodily from getting within proximity of Dr. Ruckman by "Dr." Estep and two young men who were bodybuilders, Ruckman's bodyguards. When I made the statement to the men and women with me that let's not waste anymore time and head for the street ministry, one of the young men made an obscene remark I won;t repeat for the sake of the women in this forum. I won't repeat it for the sake of the men, either."
Aloha brother Tony,

I believe what you have testified to, but I don't think that the "bodyguards" were from brother Ruckman - Baptist "bodyguards" were "standard fare" for Greg Estep and his followers.

On the Island of Kauai we had an Estep "clone" Baptist church that followed in the footsteps of Greg Estep. It was (and may still be) the most Fascistic setup I ever saw in 50 years of being a Christian!

I have a friend (Ed) who was invited by the groom (who was attending said church) to his wedding. When my friend (Ed) showed up at the wedding, he was met at the door by two "Christian" GOONS who PHYSICALLY PREVENTED him from attending his own friend's wedding! Later on, one of those GOONS threatened to knock my block off when my wife and I were trying to counsel a Christian couple to reconcile and not divorce!

If Estep was involved, I can believe that the "bodyguards" were either his, or his idea. I do not think that they were brother Ruckman's, or brother Ruckman's idea.

Take a deep brother; although you and I "differ" on some of the dispensational issues, I have never had the inclination to reprove or rebuke you, because I think your conduct has been peaceful here (and a lot less controversial than mine ).

I learned a lot from brother Peter Ruckman's books and tapes from 1968 through the early 1980's (I haven't read much of his material in over 20 years). I disagree with him on this issue, and a few others too boot! The man is not "infallible", but at the same time, I know that God has used him - despite his "shortcomings".

I see no "profit" or "edification" in tearing the man down - let sleeping dogs lie brother, there are a whole lot of other "fish to fry" without tearing down a man who will have to answer to God (maybe shortly) for his faults and shortcomings. In addition, brother Ruckman can not be held responsible for the many "clones" (Ruckmanites) who try to "imitate" him.

I agree with your "take" on many issues (such as the "conspiracy device" [2 Corinthians 2:11]; the hopelessly corrupt governments of the world; the emphasis on the "ministry of reconciliation"; etc.).

Like you often say brother:

"Grace and peace to you",

Yours for the Lord Jesus Christ and for His Holy word,