[Forrest]

Originally Posted by JMWHALEN

I have 3 "stacks" of Christian subject matter(for the lack of a better word phrase)that are "the highest", i.e., in which I have an intense interest:

1. Dispensationalism
2. "Romanism"
3. Gap theory

Accordingly, I thought the below link would be FYE re. the GAP theory(amongst many I have accumulated over the years). I would add that I understand that Gaines R. Johnson is a "staunch" KJB only advocate,witness the site address words used.

As usual, "check it out" with the Book-Acts 17:11

http://www.kjvbible.org/

In Christ,

John M. Whalen

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Forgive me for the long post, but this particular reply represents about a week of study, prayer, and contemplation. After reading your reply Brother Vince (post #15), I see why this subject has such "spirited" and "lengthy" debates. I agree with you that it’s good we can “dig for truth” on this Forum and still “With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, [forbear] one another in love” (Ephesians 4:2).

This post addresses the teaching on 2 Peter 3:5-7 from the above referenced link given by Brother Whalen on post #14. Although it may be hard to believe, in my 29 years as a Christian I’ve not read any books or materials or heard any sermons on the subject of the “GAP THEORY,” so my observations are only from the scriptures, and not from other resources that are available to us. I did, however, read the web-page referred to by Brother Whalen and I’m only commenting on it. And Brother Whalen, it did indeed lead me to “search the scriptures” to see “whether these things be so” (Acts 17:11).

The verses I comment on are: “For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men” (2 Peter 3:5-7).

In response to the verses above, Gaines R. Johnson, author of the referenced link, explains in part, and I quote:

“Contrary to popular interpretation, the above passage is NOT a reference to Noah's flood. (See Introduction Pages for specifics.) And the only other place in the Bible where the Earth was covered in waters is Genesis 1:2. The ramifications are obvious: The literal wording suggests that the "heavens and the earth, which are now" (made during the seven days) was not the first-time creation of all things as is traditionally assumed. The Word of God appears to be telling the reader there was a previous populated world on the face of this old Earth before God formed the present world of modern Man.”

I realize he has a lot more to say on the subject, but I wanted to study his specific comments in light of God’s word, comparing scripture with scripture, before being influenced by “other” data provided by Brother Johnson.

It goes without saying, this passage, like all scripture, stands on its own without the commentary of well learned and pious men. I am neither, but I’ve attempted to be thorough, and honest, with the “literal wording”. I’ve also read the word openly without twisting it to fit a preconceived idea. What’s my conclusion? I do not agree with Brother Johnson’s particular view regarding these verses of scripture. In saying that, I believe 2 Peter 3:3-7, references Noah’s day--and flood. Here’s why:

2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

EXPLANATION OF VERSES (3) “…there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts” (4) “…all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation” (5) “For this they willingly are ignorant of…” (6) “…the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished” and (7) “…the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.”

The word “they” in verse 5, of course, refers to the “scoffers” referred to in verse 3 [a scoffer is a derider, i.e. (by implication) a false teacher:--mocker] who come in the last days and walk after their own lusts. They are ignorant because things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation (verse 4), which will result in the judgment of God (verse 7).

I believe that the Apostle Peter is drawing a parallel between an “older” time recorded in history to a current and coming one. In addition, I believe he is giving a warning in his second epistle by putting the readers in remembrance of both good and evil. “This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:” (2 Peter 3:1).

OF GOOD

2 Peter 1:5-8 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

OF EVIL

2 Peter 2:4-9 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds) The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

They [the scoffers] will also be judged [as the individuals in Noah’s day were judged] for their wickedness and their ungodliness. By using the word “as” I am not suggesting the method of judgment is the same, I am emphasizing judgment itself.

Genesis 6:5-7 says “And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Genesis 6:11-13 says, “The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.”

The description of mankind in Noah’s day parallels with the Apostle Peter’s description of mankind in the last days. And although the judgments are different, there are judgments in both times. I believe the Apostle Peter refers to Noah and the flood when he writes in 2 Peter 3:6, “Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished.”

In Peter’s first epistle (3:20), we also see clear reference to Noah’s day and a time of judgment. We read, “Which sometime were disobedient [see the above verses in Genesis 6 for the detail of their disobedience], when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.” This clearly references Noah’s day and a time of judgment.

In Peter’s second epistle (3:7) we see a coming judgment. We read, “But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.” This is a clear reference to the last days and a coming judgment.

EXPLANATION OF VERSE 5 & 7 (5) “…heavens were of old” and (7) “…the heavens and the earth, which are now”

The word “old” means: ekpalai eh'-pal-ahee long ago, for a long while:--of a long time, of old.

The word “old” simply refers to something long ago, of a long time, and of old. These words [“heavens were of old”], in my opinion, do not mean or imply that the “old” heavens must have been re-created with the “new” heavens. But the words “heavens were of old” in verse 5, and the words “the heavens and the earth, which are now” in verse 7, do indeed mean something. But what do they mean?

The words “heavens were of old,” in my understanding, simply refer to the heavens before the flood which is recorded in Genesis 6. What exactly was different long ago regarding the heavens of old before the flood, and the heavens which are now after the flood? Do the scriptures tell us?

In Genesis 2:5–6 we read, “And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. [No rain. How did the plants and the herbs grow?] But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.”

What was the difference between the “heavens” of a long time ago [before the ‘Noah’ flood] and now [after the ‘Noah’ flood]? There was no rain from the heavens before the flood and there was rain from the heavens after the flood.

Jeremiah 10:13 says, “When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures.” This clearly refers to the same heavens the Apostle Peter wrote about, “which are now,” after the flood. It rains from the heavens.

EXPLANATION OF VERSE 6 “Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished”

I think this clearly teaches that the world and its orderly arrangement, inhabitants, and adornment in Noah’s day, perished or was destroyed when it was flooded by water. Keep in mind that the Apostle Peter has already said that God “…spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly” (2 Peter 2:5).

Genesis 6:17 says, “And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.”

Genesis 7:21-24 says, “And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark. And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.”

EXPLANATION OF VERSE 7 - “But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.”

The heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved, because God’s word says:

Genesis 8:21-22 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done. While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

Notice carefully. We can conclude that the above verses reference the “earth” and the “heavens”. The words “seedtime and harvest” certainly refer to the earth. And the words “day and night” include the heavens.

And the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men because God’s word says:

2 Thessalonians 1:5-9 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

CONCLUDING THOUGHTS

By considering and comparing “scripture” with “scripture,” my opinion is that 2 Peter 3:5-7, is referencing Noah’s flood. If this is the case, then part of the foundation, in my opinion, for those who support a "Gap Theory," dissolves.

From MC's post#15: Adam was the first man, according to the Bible. By Adam, sin entered into the world, also according to the Bible. But that verse is talking about this present earth, not the "world that then was" (2 Pet. 3:6).

On the other hand, if a person believes that the Apostle Peter was referring to a time, and to a world we don't really have any clear, written explanation of, what can I say?

From MC's post#15 The Bible doesn't explain this original creation in this passage; It gives us indications and hints in other places (Eze. 28, Isa. 12), but details and definite descriptions aren't readily visible. [Yet you, or whomever you're quoting, come to the conclusion] The six day present creation came after that.