[George]

Originally Posted by Forrest

"Brother George, you may have (probably) already addressed this, but I was wondering about the verse:

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

The argument that before a person can even believe, "regeneration" performed by God must take place. If you addressed this already, which post is it? If not, would you expound?"

Aloha brother Forrest,

I believe I addressed the matter in my second Post (#3) – here is the Link:
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...59&postcount=3

The following excerpt comes from Post #3 (near the beginning):

According to the Bible - the state of all men and women born into this world is best described as being “SINFUL” – NOT “Totally Depraved”. All men and women are “Sinners” – NOT “Totally Depraved”. The Scriptures describe all men and women {without God} as “the NATURAL man” – NOT the “Totally Depraved” man [1Corinthians 2:14]. By describing all men & women as being“Totally Depraved” the Calvinists have changed the parameters (words) of the issue – making a man incapable of even BELIEVING unless he is “regenerated” FIRST! “God grants that we believe (Phil. 1:29)”; and “God appoints people to believe” (Acts 13:48); or as the “Center for Reformed Theology and Apologetics” puts it: “The unregenerate (unsaved) man is dead in his sins (Romans 5:12). Without the power of the Holy Spirit, the natural man is blind and deaf to the message of the gospel (Mark 4:11f). This is why Total Depravity has also been called "Total Inability”. The man without knowledge of God will never come to this knowledge without God's making him alive through Christ (Ephesians 2:1-5).” But, “what saith the Scriptures”? [Ephesians 1:13In whom ye also trusted, AFTER that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also AFTER that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,]

And herein is the first major difference between most Calvinists and myself. In their concern for men having absolutely NOTHING to do with EARNING their salvation, the Calvinist (through the doctrine of “TOTAL DEPRAVITY”) make it impossible for a man (or woman) to even BELIEVE – unless they are “regenerated” FIRST!

Now, I believe that there is NOTHING we can DO to EARN God’s Salvation; but there is SOMETHING that we MUST DO to RECEIVE God’s Salvation – WE MUST FIRST BELIEVE! THE QUESTION IS: . . .Sirs, WHAT MUST I DO to be saved? THE BIBLICAL ANSWER: And they said, BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. [Acts 16:30-31]

There is a huge difference between sinful men (and women) being unable (in the flesh) to DO anything to EARN their Salvation, and men and women first “BELIEVING” the Gospel (with their heart) in order to RECEIVE God’s Free Gift of Eternal Salvation!

Now the Calvinists (in their concern for man having NOTHING to do with his Salvation) cannot accept that we BELIEVE before we are “regenerated” (for, according to Calvinism, that would be a WORK on the part of man, and since Salvation is:“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;” [Titus 3:5] then (according to the Calvinists) we must be “regenerated” before we can believe – since BELIEVING (according to Calvinists) is a WORK. But BELIEF is solely an operation and function of the HEART – NOT the flesh! “WORKS of righteousness” are done in the FLESH. The heart is our “faculty” where our will resides; the flesh is our “substance” that produces WORKS!

The following excerpt comes from my Post #3 (near the end):

The “WORK” of God (in this age) is to convince people (through His word) to “BELIEVE” the Gospel. The purpose of the Gospel is to bring people to the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. IF God “gives” us our “BELIEF”, WHY does He have to WORK at it? If our “BELIEF” is a “gift” from God - where then is there any “WORK” on God’s part? According to the Scriptures, God is now working at getting people to “believe on him whom he hath sent.” [Acts 13:41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.] If our “BELIEF” is a “gift” from God, there would be no “WORK” involved at all (on God’s part). Why would God try to “convince” someone of the very same thing (belief) that He is going to “give” them anyway?

2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

We obtained like precious "faith" (God's precious "gift" to us) by "believing" in our hearts, “after” we heard the Gospel of the Grace of God.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, AFTER that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also AFTER that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Please notice the “Chronological Order” that leads up to our Salvation: We TRUSTED, AFTER we HEARD the word of TRUTH (The Gospel). We were “sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise”, AFTER WE BELIEVED– NOT “BEFORE”! [Ephesians 1:13]:

Although faith is a “gift” from God (based on the Lord Jesus Christ’s finished WORK on Calvary), our “belief” in the Gospel of Jesus Christ is NOT a “gift” from God, but is instead an operation and function of our heart – God does NOT “BELIEVE” for us, or “FORCE” us to “believe” in Him!

From the very beginning of the creation of Adam, and up to the present time, God has wanted people to "believe" Him and obey Him. There have been different Dispensations; and God has required different things of people under the different "Covenants"; but the one constant thread running throughout all of the ages (Dispensations), and under all of the "Covenants" is God's consistent requirement that we "Believe" Him (His Holy words). He does not FORCE us, or MAKE us "believe" Him, but He "REQUIRES" it!

God has required of everyone under every Covenant and in every "age" that they "BELIEVE" His words {Oral or Written} and OBEY them. We are very fortunate that under the "New Covenant” - All we have to DO to get saved is to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, . . . ." {When WE "BELIEVE" in Christ's death, burial, and resurrection and "RECEIVE" Him as our personal Saviour, we have done (obeyed) all that God has required of us (under the "New" Covenant) to get saved.} God never said that we are too “DEPRAVED” to believe Him – He has said that there is nothing we can DO (“WORKS”) to save ourselves {Romans 1:16; Romans 3:19-28; Galatians 2:16}. Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

To answer your question – I believe that Ephesians 1:13 settles the matter of the Chronological order of Salvation (in this age and under the New Covenant) for ever. According to the Scriptures presented - "Regeneration" (the "new birth") takes place AFTER we have BELIEVED - NOT BEFORE! {After all, the whole purpose of the Gospel is to get us to BELIEVE; why would God emphasize the Gospel and our BELIEVING it, IF He is only going to honor the promises within it, to those He "Regenerates" first? Wouldn't that be disingenuous?}
[Ephesians 1:13In whom ye also trusted, AFTER that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also AFTER that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,]

Calvinists have confused the “Chronological Order of Salvation, and in doing, so they have constructed “a system of biblical interpretation” and “theological formulations” based upon a FALSE PREMISE (Premises), resulting in a “doctrine” (doctrines) that is not only FALSE, but also extremely pernicious (clearly demonstrated by some of the Calvinists’ responses to my Posts on this Forum – adversarial, belligerent, arrogant, epithetical (name calling), insulting, and (most importantly) without any “SUBSTANCE”!).

Once someone truly BELIEVES in “something”, it is extremely difficult to change one’s heart (NOT mind) on the matter. I do not profess to understand the workings of the heart; I only know (from reading and studying the Holy Scriptures and personal observation) that true, genuine BELIEF (no matter in WHAT) is a sole function of the heart, and that when it takes place, there is a “Commitment” to that “BELIEF” (that takes place within the heart) that makes it extremely difficult (often impossible without the Holy Spirit convicting and convincing) to CHANGE! {Try to witness to Catholics, Mormons, JW’s, Seventh Day Adventists, Cambellites, Pentecostals, Baptist Briders, Hindus, Buddhists, Mohammedans (Islamists), Humanists, etc. and you will know what I mean. }

Well, the same holds true for Calvinists. A person who has accepted the doctrines of Calvinism is a “Calvinist”. A Calvinist accepts the “teachings” of Calvinism and believes (is convinced) in his/her heart that Calvinism is the ONE TRUE WAY (the ONLY WAY). Their faith in Calvinism mirrors our faith in God’s Holy word, the only problem being is, that they are placing their faith in a man and his writings – rather than Almighty God and His Holy word. {witness PB1789’s “reverence” for the writings of John Calvin – i.e. “FEAST”. }

Calvinists USE the Holy Bible (or corrupt bibles), as do ALL CULTS, to establish their pernicious doctrine, and IGNORE any and all verses of Scripture that are clearly contrary to what they believe. They think that, because they emphasize the “Sovereignty” of God, they can’t possibly be wrong. But the problem is, they, like their “Neo Orthodox” brethren (who supposedly emphasize the Person and Majesty of the Lord Jesus Christ), IGNORE THE TRUTH (i.e. THE SCRIPTURE – John 17:17) and in doing so, they construct “a system of biblical interpretation” and “theological formulations” that lead to erroneous “biblical interpretations” (leaven); dead orthodoxy; and eventually APOSTASY! {The unassailable historical record of Calvinism – in whatever churches it has been received and accepted. In other words - Calvinism = A DEAD END!}

Whenever Christians (or a church) abandon the Holy word of God and substitute “the tradition of men” in its place [Colossians 2:8], they are on the road to APOSTASY. It may take 40 years; it may take 100 years; it may take 200 years or more, but “leaven”, just a “little leaven”, ALWAYS “leavens the whole lump” (without exception). [1Corinthians 5:6; Galatians 5:9] I have personally witnessed on several occasions (within my lifetime) the destructive results of just " little leaven" in some of the churches I have attended.

[Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.]

[1 Corinthians 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
Galatians 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.]