[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by chette777

"would like to finish and get SCRIPTURE as to why the water baptism of Leviticus 8 is not related to John's baptism of repentance,"

Le 8:6 And Moses brought Aaron and his sons, and washed them with water.

This seems to be the verse that Tbones is referencing to. the whole context of Lev 8 is Moses preparing Arron and his sons for their priestly duties.

I am not sure how Moses washed them, did he fully immerse them or did he sprinkle them? did he give them a sponge bath? I guess we would have to trust it was a bath to make them physically clean.

the sacrifice later would be that which would make them spiritually clean for the moment of their duties.

here is John's Baptism.

Mt 3:1-6 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey. Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

Mt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance:

Mr 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

from this verse it seems those getting baptized. And but it seems it went along with confessing their sins and repentance is mentioned. It would seem baptism of John was something the people (not Levite priests) were doing as a token of their repentance from their confessed sin.

The bath Moses gave them was not for remission of sins but physical cleansing. the sacrifice was for the remission and forgiveness of sin.

John also Preached that baptism was for repentance for the remission of sins. So if a person got baptized it was so they could receive the remission of their sins. I really don't see any similarity to the bath Moses Gave Arron and his sons in Lev 8.

the law required Jews to bring a sacrifice. but the person that the animal was sacrificed for was not told to take a bath. the bath that Moses gave was for the Levite priests only not for the whole congregation.

John was giving them remission with no sacrifice which is different from the Law which required the sacrifice of an animal.

There are many differences between the bath of Lev 8 and John's baptism. but there are no similarities.

And still no Scripture as to why they are not similar.

Ex 29:29 And the holy garments of Aaron shall be his sons’ after him, to be anointed therein, and to be consecrated in them.
Le 21:10 And he that is the high priest among his brethren, upon whose head the anointing oil was poured, and that is consecrated to put on the garments, shall not uncover his head, nor rend his clothes;
Nu 3:3 These are the names of the sons of Aaron, the priests which were anointed, whom he consecrated to minister in the priest’s office.

We see above the consecration(washing for cleanliness to wear the garments)and the sanctification by the oil(the type of the Holy Spirit)as the first steps in making a priest.

Ex 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Exodus 29:4 And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water.
5 And thou shalt take the garments, and put upon Aaron the coat, and the robe of the ephod, and the ephod, and the breastplate, and gird him with the curious girdle of the ephod:
6 And thou shalt put the mitre upon his head, and put the holy crown upon the mitre.
7 Then shalt thou take the anointing oil, and pour it upon his head, and anoint him.

Exodus 40:12 And thou shalt bring Aaron and his sons unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and wash them with water.
13 And thou shalt put upon Aaron the holy garments, and anoint him, and sanctify him; that he may minister unto me in the priest’s office.
14 And thou shalt bring his sons, and clothe them with coats:
15 And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest’s office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.

In Exodus 29 ans 40 we see Moses being given the instruction for the consecration and sanctification of the priesthood. In Leviticus 8 we see it first carried out:

Lev. 8:6 And Moses brought Aaron and his sons, and washed them with water.
7 And he put upon him the coat, and girded him with the girdle, and clothed him with the robe, and put the ephod upon him, and he girded him with the curious girdle of the ephod, and bound it unto him therewith.
8 And he put the breastplate upon him: also he put in the breastplate the Urim and the Thummim.
9 And he put the mitre upon his head; also upon the mitre, even upon his forefront, did he put the golden plate, the holy crown; as the LORD commanded Moses.
10 And Moses took the anointing oil, and anointed the tabernacle and all that was therein, and sanctified them.
11 And he sprinkled thereof upon the altar seven times, and anointed the altar and all his vessels, both the laver and his foot, to sanctify them.
12 And he poured of the anointing oil upon Aaron’s head, and anointed him, to sanctify him.

Eze 44:10 And the Levites that are gone away far from me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity.

Oops, looks like we found where not only the people of the nation of Israel needing repentance in the days of Jesus's ministry on earth but the Levites also before they can be the "holy nation" of Exodus 19:

Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.

The Levites and the rest of the nation was in a serious need for repentance before their consecration. They had to be "consecrated to wear the garments", this consecration and fruits meet for repentence was John's baptism(Levitical washing) of repentance that Israel might be made a kingdom of priests and an "holy nation".

Jesus sat and read to Jews a little prophetic passage and he stops reading in the middle of verse 2 of Isaiah 61, brother, there is a 2000 year gap between that division of one verse:


Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

Note 2000 years between the acceptable year of the Lord and "...the day of vengeance..." and then see who shows up in verse 6 below:

Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.
4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.
5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.
6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.

John's, Jesus's, and the Twelve Apostle's converts Peter writes to, and notice what kind of nation in Peter's words and Exodus 19 as Peter writes to this believing remnant that obeyed the ordinances given to Israel, not the Body of Christ:

1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Scripture with Scripture brother, there it is. John came to manifest Jesus Christ as their High Priest over an entire kingdom of priests. That's the purpose of most of the book of Hebrews, to declare the great High Priest.

You can't bend the Scriptures around a preconceived denominational notion of "following the Lord in Believers Baptism" because the Scriptures can't be broken, and because no one "follows the Lord in Believers Sabbatical for 40 days in the desert", "follows the Lord in Believers Scourging" nor "follows the Lord in Believers Crucifixion". This is as "testy" as I plan to get in this thread, but in Ezekiel 2 the Lord tells Ezekiel why he will preach the word of God to stiffnecked and stubborn people who won't listen to the clear word of God laid out for them: Unbelieving Israel will know a prophet of God was among them, in this thread no one reading this will ever be able to preach the doctrinal error of "following the Lord in Believers Baptism" ever again without a nagging doubt in your mind.

Grace and peace brothers and sisters

Tony