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Old 08-08-2008, 11:55 AM
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BornAgainBibleBeliever514 BornAgainBibleBeliever514 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Montreal
Posts: 100


I like the way you can handle yourself against folks who ride their confusion towards anger. If I'm confused, I'll simply admit it and ask questions!

I've been wary of this lordship salvation thing for a couple months now, only hearing about it recently, and I want to ensure that I am on the right path.

Lordship Salvation is a wicked doctrine. I am ashamed I was involved in it. My participation stemmed from the fact that I wanted to win souls, and Ray Comfort's literature seemed quite good in teaching me how to. However, his false gospel reached into my heart, and made me doubt salvation deeply. Thank God I have rejected that and accept Christ as my only all in all.
In response to this, I also happen to be doing the Ray Comfort materials as well, the Basic and Intermediate Way of the Master evangelism courses, in fact I'm moderating the classes to a small group. While I have found the methodology of getting back to using the law as a schoolmaster to drive people through the narrow gate of understanding their plight and need for a Saviour to be quite good, and sorely lacking in modern preaching.. (not around AV-people though), I had hunches something was slightly fishy.
As for the whole package, I've found some of their tracts very useful, and I've learned so many good analogies that really help in getting someone to understand things. I disaprove of their comfort-izing the KJ text to produce the Evidence bible, but I must aknowledge that it does contain lots of useful witnessing commentaries, helps and tactics.
Then I found out I could just read all the supplemental material online for free, and not have bothered with the Evidence bible... anyways, I never use it for study.
I honestly think that the method of using the law correctly, inoffensively tactical to revive the conscience of the unbeliever, circumventing their intellectual places of argument, and using the law for the purpose it was designed for: to show we are sinners in God's sight, and in need of the Saviour.
Lots of great soul-winning scriptures have been learned, and the overall methodolgies seem sound and effective, not to mention a personal revival towards soul-winning.
However I noted that they missed the boat on the episode of satanic influence in the church. They have a whole episode on this topic and miss 98% of the actual corruption, focusing just on the modern gospel perversion. (which IS important to talk about none the less).
As a KJB-believer, I can discern well enough not to throw out the baby with the bathwater and use the good teachings, and forget the weak points.

Really, the only thing I'm concerned about is this Lordship salvation issue.
Its true that Comfort's methodologies are really quite sincere, and for the most part, scripturally and doctrinally correct, except when he talks about repenting of your sins; I wonder.
It sort of lingers that one must repent completely before they can be saved. Personally, I think that a certain amount of repentance is required, but not complete repentance for every detail of you past life.
I mean, one should be repenting of disbeleif, the sin at large they now feel convicted of, and desire to turn away from them to walk towards Jesus.
Now I don't think there should be any kind of level indicator as to just how much sin needs to be dealt with up front. It seems like enough to convict the person that the wages of sin is death (hell) would be enough. Enough repentance to come to a trusting in only Jesus Christ's ability to be able to fully forgive the sin.
But one doesn't go overboard, greiving the spirit by intentionally taking liberties to sin because of the grace. And one doesn't regress, thinking there is a factor of earning or maintaining it through trying hard.

Perhaps I'm a little fuzzy here, and that's why I'd like some clarification.
As an eternally saved born-again beleiver who still struggles with sins, I know that complete repentance and utter lordship is unattainable while in my fleshly body. Although, I can testify that once I was saved, a large portion of my former lusts, sins and nature just seemed to fall away, without any desire to go back. But there is still some left, so I know its possible to be saved and not be perfect right away :P

I heard an interesting theory, that when a person gets saved, God deals with certain things in their life that He knew they needed gone for preservation's sake, something that was dangerous. And He will leave some things that are there as trials for you to deal with in His strength, to learn to excersie our faith.

I wish I could promise shorter posts.
My question is this: is there a rule of thumb one can use to divide lordship salvation from graceful salvation? (more than just a works-based vs. faith-based definition.) Any exampes of people teaching lordship?

Thanks for reading this post, and for any replies.