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Old 07-18-2009, 09:04 PM
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there is no Hebrew text which is in one volume somewhere on earth right now which is perfect. The same for the New Testament in Greek.
Originally Posted by Steven Avery View Post
Is this an assertion that you feel is provable, that you can prove ? Please share precisely what is the basis for your saying with certainty that that no volume on earth today in Greek or Hebrew is the perfect word of God.
What I am saying is that it cannot be certainly proved that there is one single volume on earth which right now is perfect of either testament in its respective original language. In fact, it appears that every edition we know of does differ to the King James Bible.

By perfect, I mean "exemplar" perfect, in that there are prefectly adequet and sufficent copies of Scripture in the original languages, but beyond that, we cannot say certainly that one edition is "the standard".

This means that other translations and so on are the Word of God, even though they might not match the King James Bible fully. The point is that while they might be sufficient, it is better and right to rely upon that which we know is "exemplar" perfect. The KJB is it.

On the lack of citation of Joseph Mede, this is because I have a text file from Clovis Apocyl. which has no page numbers.

There are several quotes from several authors which indicate that the Christian evangelisation of the Jews would take place in the latter days glory of the Church, of which I have some quotes at hand, but there are more:

It is in this darkness that we find the sixth vial brings the next calamity: “And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.” (Revelation 16:12).

Already in the 1630s, Joseph Mede had some understanding what the prophecy of the “kings of the east” was referring to:

“That is, the Church of Christ, as it was about to become double by the conversion of Israel” (Mede.)

“The sixth phial will be poured out on the great river Euphrates; so that, being dried up, a passage may be prepared for the new enemies of the beast to come from the Last, that is, for the Israelites, wonderfully converted to the pure faith and Worship of Christ, and now become candidates for the kingdom promised for so many ages. Whom the followers of the beast [Romanism], perhaps, may be inclined to consider as the army of their fictitious antichrist, to arise from the Jews, of whom they do not Hesitate to assert, that even we of this day are the forerunners. God thus avenging their obstinacy in error.” (Mede.)

“Whatever it may be, their obstruction being removed, the way of approach is by some means said to be prepared for these new Christians from the East, and that, as it appears, for the purpose of undertaking an expedition against the beast, to whose destruction all the phials are subservient. For whence otherwise, and for what reason, should such a trepidation and panic seize upon the followers of the beast, and even the demons themselves, from the time of the drying up of the river, as to occasion such a horrible and unheard-of preparation for war as is here described; unless they, with the whole diabolical cohort, feared every extremity from the accession of the new kings of the East?” (Mede.)

The historicist commentator Barnes speculated, “in accordance with what is so often said in the prophets, that under the gospel kings and princes would consecrate themselves and their wealth to God. See Psalm 72:10, 11, ‘The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts. Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him.’ So also Isaiah 40:4–6, 9, 11, [summarised], ‘Thy sons shall come from far.—The forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.—All they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense.—The isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them.—Thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.’ All that is fairly implied in the language used here is, that the kings of the east would be converted to the true religion...”

The historicist theologian Bishop Newton conjectured that the Roman Catholic response would be manifest in the tribulation, “Whoever they be, they appear to threaten the ruin and destruction of the Kingdom of the beast: and therefore the agents and emissaries of popery ... are employed to oppose them, and stir up the princes and potentates of their communion to make their united and lad effort in a religious war. Of necessity there must be times of great trouble and affliction ... Armageddon”.

See also:
Here is a quote from Oliver Cromwell, Speech the First, 1653, "This being so, truly it puts me in mind of another Scripture, that famous Psalm, sixty-eighth Psalm ; l which indeed is a glorious prophecy, I am persuaded, of the Gospel churches, it may be, of the Jews also. There it prophesies that He will bring His people again from the depths of the sea, as once He led " Israel through the Red Sea." And it may be, as some think, God will bring the Jews home to their station from the isles of the sea, and answer their expectations as from the depths of the sea. But, at all events, sure I am, when the Lord shall set up the glory of the Gospel Church, it shall be a gathering of people as out of deep waters, out of the multitude of waters t such are His people, drawn out of the multitudes of the nations and people of this world. And truly that Psalm is very glorious in many other parts of it : when He gave the word, great was the company of them that published it. Kings of armies did flee apace, and she that tarried at home divided the spoil; and " Although ye have lain among the pots, yet shall ye " be as the wings of a dove, covered with silver, and her feathers " with yellow gold." And indeed the triumph of that Psalm is exceeding high and great ; and God is accomplishing it."

I found another Mede quote:

"That testimony of Amos, quoted by James in the Council of the Apostles, Acts, c. xv. (not to notice this likewise), seems to have been intended of the anticipated of the anticipated conversion of the Gentiles, i. e. of that which would precede the restoration of the Jews; and on that account... the same inference may he collected of the anticipated adoption of the Gentiles among the people of God, namely, in this sense, that the Jews being brought back, when the tabernacle of David, which had fallen down, should at last be restored"

Last edited by bibleprotector; 07-18-2009 at 09:21 PM.