[Diligent]

Originally Posted by George

Can you name an animal that breathes air that doesn't have nostrils? I cannot think of any - but there may be some.

Locusts (creeping things wherein is the breath of life, Ge 6) require oxygen but do not have lungs. But I don't mean to make my point with a bunch of what-ifs. I am simply trying to point out that the "breath of life" is not about the physical act of breathing.

An unborn child is not "dead" or considered a "non-entity" (as if it didn't exist).

Is an unborn child a body? If it is, it is either alive (with spirit) or dead (without spirit). If it is not a body, why was John specifically identified as the one to rejoice in his mother's womb?

An unborn child within the womb is a "gift" from God - However, he/she is dependent upon the mother for life until he/she is born (their "life" is inextricably linked to the mother's life and they have no "life", for very long, apart from her), and has "life" within himself/herself. The question is: Does he/she possess a "spirit" and correspondingly - a soul?

I still can't accept those assumptions. A child has it's own blood and can often have blood incompatible with its mother's blood. Since the "life of the flesh is in the blood" the child's flesh has it's own life. Since a body that is alive has a spirit, the child has a spirit. Yes, a child is dependent upon its mother, but this is irrelevant. Our medical science is constantly moving "viability" closer and closer to conception, so we can't tie anything having to do with life to viability, because what life is isn't in our hands.

The underwater "birth" does not negate the teaching. The baby has to come out of the water (real soon) or it will die - if it can't BREATH!

How can it die if it is not alive? Again, the body without the spirit is dead. If it does not have a spirit, how is it alive?

You stated:

However, I never said "the breath of AIR" -

Typo. I meant "breath of life."

Here is my "feeble attempt" to answer it.
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

I believe that the "body" spoken of here is a "body" that has already been born (at some time) - not an unborn child.

Interesting distinction -- I can't see how this can be made. The Bible does not distinguish between an "unborn child" and a "child." It simply calls a pregnant woman "with child."

2 Samuel 11:5 And the woman conceived, and sent and told David, and said, I am with child.

As I have said: An unborn child's "life" is inextricably linked to the mother's "life" -

Surrogate mothers can accept a conceived child from a biological mother. This is called embryo adoption. The womb is a place where God does his work and the child develops. The mother and child do not share blood. The "life of the flesh is in the blood." The child's flesh life is distinct and separate from its mother's.

without the mother's "life" a babe within the womb dies.

Not always. A mother can die and a child can be medically delivered after the mother has already died. That time is certainly short, but there it is.

Why is that? I believe it is because, although they are alive within the womb, that "life" is different than ours, since it is inextricably linked to the mother, and is totally dependent upon the mother to sustain his or her life (which we are not - we are dependent upon God to sustain us, and so is the mother also).

Except that even after birth the child is totally dependent on others for its care. A newborn baby will die shortly thereafter if not fed and cared for. Being dependent upon another for sustaining the body does not change its status as a living person.

I have stated elsewhere that upon reviewing the nearly 500 verses with the word soul (souls) in them, I cannot find a single verse in reference to an unborn child - every place the word soul (souls) occurs it is speaking about a person (persons), already born, and which is living and breathing upon the earth (outside of the womb).

And I can find none that suggest an unborn child (just "child" in the Bible) lacks a living soul.

In fact, given Jeremiah and David's comments about conception, I think that the obvious default position is that a conceived child is a child in Adam's image (tripartite).

Succinctly:

1. An individual body's "life" is in its blood:

Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood:

2. A child's blood is different than its mothers. This is medical fact. My wife has a different blood type than her mother did.

3. An unborn child can be "slain" (killed):

Jeremiah 20:17 Because he slew me not from the womb; or that my mother might have been my grave, and her womb to be always great with me.

(Slaying takes a life: 2 Samuel 14:7 "for the life of his brother whom he slew")

An unborn child is therefor "alive."

4. Since a body without a spirit is dead, an unborn baby can not lack a spirit, since its body is living.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

5. We are not expected to be able to understand how a conceived child/babe/infant/son (all words the Bible uses to describe the unborn) can hold a soul and spirit and all of that:

Ecclesiastes 11:5 As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.

so, 6. I am content to just accept this without further explanation.

Further, the Bible only calls the unborn "children" or "babes" or "infants." It is not for us to split these words into subclasses. The Bible says children have souls (1Ki 17:22). Given all of the above, I can see no cause to say that the "child" in the womb is non-tripartite.

Like I have said before: I don't have all the answers, and I could be wrong about this issue. I do know one thing though - this issue is far more "complex" than some people make it out to be, and I have sought answers from the Holy Scriptures and not from men, or my own private opinions.

And, I hope that my explanation above shows I am basing my own understanding on Scripture and not other men's opinions as well.