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Old 07-18-2009, 02:53 AM
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tonybones2112 tonybones2112 is offline
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Originally Posted by Amanda S. View Post
Bro. Tony, I appreciate your kind words. I indeed do not condone hateful street preaching nor would it be advantageous in winning them to Christ.
However, after much diccussion with my husband and examining the Scriptures Paul B. perfectly voiced my thoughts on this.

In the discussion I had had earlier on FaceBook I was continually given the verse:

Yet, when this verse is read I feel it strengthens the position that God does have pleasure in the death of those that refuse Him. That little word but. He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked but that they will turn from their wicked way. I read that to say if they do not turn from their wicked way while living and they die in their sin then He is pleased? Death here appears to be a future event because after death they would have no option to turn from their wicked ways.

I again am not trying to suggest we go around with hatred in our hearts toward the unsaved in general, but when someone is bent on their wickedness and rejects the Savior I just don't see where God loves that person present tense.

I also find it interesting that the apostles never once told the multitudes that "God loves them" yet there are several instances where they preach the fear of God.

This verse also has been given as proof that God loves sinners:

But even this passage says that he commendeth His love toward us. He "offers" His love toward us AT CALVARY...That is the only place you will find God's love for the sinner mentioned.

God hates, the Bible says he does. He hates people even not just their sin. But Jesus appeased the wrath of God at the cross. So the only way God's wrath is appeased is by looking at the sinner who is covered by the blood of His Son.

Again, feel free to pick apart my thinking

Really enjoying reading your comments and thinking this through and studying the Bible
Sister, I have no intention of picking apart anything you have to say. We had a woman in the forum a number of months ago and several men who were teaching Law and some weird Jewish fables revolving around the good ol' days of early Genesis period, they were stripped to the bones You make many valid points and comments that are worthy of responding to.

Amanda, when I was studying in college we had a course and a degree called "abnormal" psychology. That's no longer available to me, the time has long past for me to take any degree in it, I was a few hours short of a bachelors in this field. What was then "abnormal" is normal today. I'd like to approach "hatred of sinners" from that angle first.

When a man preaches that "God hates sinners" it's something known as "projecting", it's a mental defense mechanism against self-hatred. When a man preaches "God hates sinners" it's because he is trying to take the spotlight off himself, because he has a few pretty hideous sins in his life he is not telling us about. A man who preaches that "God hates sinners' is not a man I'd leave alone with a child or group of children. Sister, I'm not going to name names and produce court documents in my possession, if you feel God leads me to speak the truth, take my word for it.

Jack Hyles was one of the most vicious and fervent preachers against adultery I have ever known, Hyles was committing adultery with his personal secretary for over 20 years he preached against it.

Any man who preaches that "God hates sinners" is secretly preaching against himself. I don't want you in the same room, alone, with that man. I attended a church where the pastor withdrew support for the street ministry because he didn't want that street trash in the church.
Now, as individual Christians we can believe what we want. Sister, regarding the traditional Baptist doctrine you were born and raised into, I am your worst nightmare. Let each of us be fully persuaded in our own minds. But a man in the position of a pastor or evangelist, educator, author, who has the power to influence or sway large numbers of people teaches that "God hates sinners" that man is a murderer. He is condemning the lost to hell, because such a man does not want to witness, nor will witness to lost people, the lost is the reason you and I exist in Christ.

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

If God hates sinners then let's just translate our own version of the Scriptures and when we do, we will say there is "no manuscript evidence" for the verse I just quoted you.

The second thing I want to address is Scripture wresting. Can You show me Scripture that "God hates sinners"? Kewl. I can show you Scripture that proves the existence of Santa Clause:

Zec 2:6 Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the LORD: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the LORD.

Sure, Santa is God ain't He? He knows when you been sleeping, he knows when you're awake, he knows when you been bad or good so be good for goddness sake? There you have it, I mean it's right in the Bible. The Dane Sinte Klaus, St. Nicolas, in the rolls of the Catholic Church as the patron saint of beer drinkers is God.

I'm sure God has hated select individuals. He hated Esau, and I'm sure his opinion of the future Anti-Christ, Judas Iscariot, is not a good one. The reason the tone of this response to you is a bit strong is because the teaching "God hates sinners" is a Satanic heresy, cultic, and like Calvinism, one of the greatest tools against personal evangelism out there.

Third and final thing I want to emphasize is why did God die for people he hated?

Matt. 9:10 And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.
11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

You know, prostitutes, murderers, crackheads, crank-cookers, child molesters, rapists, just dripped off Jesus Christ everywhere he went. You ever see the tearful writhing and hear the pitiful cries of the most hardened sinner as they came to Christ, and wonder why? Because Jesus Christ has mercy on them, Christians don't. People on the street hear me speak to my fellows about this or that, and they say, you speak as if there is something wrong with Christianity. I reply yes, only one thing wrong with Christianity, Christians.

We have "Calvinists" who are actually too shy, cowardly, and are ashamed of the gospel of Christ to witness for Him. If God hates sinners I guess Arthur Blessit walked 36000 miles for nothing.

Sister, when you've read this message, blot everything out around you and read it again. They pray about it.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

When we translate the God Hates Sinners Version, above is another verse we'll have to say there is "no manuscript evidence for".

Grace and peace sister Amanda