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Old 07-04-2008, 11:39 PM
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stephanos stephanos is offline
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wenatchee WA
Posts: 885
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Originally Posted by chette777 View Post
Stephanos please be graceful in your statements. it is not just Calvenist who believe in eternal salvation. that doctrine is very well established in scriputre as well. I am not a Calvinist, nor a hyper-dispensationalist. please don't assume you are talking to them here. there are some but most of us are not.

Remember Jesus is said the be the author of eternal salvation. that scripture alone holds a lot of wieght. Hebrews 5:9

None of us beleive we have a lisence to sin because we are eternally saved. Grace gives us the power to say no to sin, not live in sin. And I assure you this, you are by no means sinless yourself. So what sin will it take to lose your salvation?

A saved individual may sin and not lose his salvation (you look to yourself as internal evidence for this). that is what 1 John 1:9 is for. if a person says they are saved continue to sin and be in wickedness and bitternes like Simon the sorcerer in Acts 8, i would have to say they are not saved. Simon believed and was baptized but he never received the Holy Ghost. he tried to buy the free gift.

the Holy Ghost is given freely in every dispensation. In the past it was always removed when God was finished using those whom he had given it, and it was only for a purpose of service to God. Only in ours is The Holy Ghost to live the Christ like life in us because it is impossible for us to do. in the Millennial the Holy Ghost is given to put the Laws on their hearts (Israel only) so they can keep the law and ordinances to serve God. He does not help them keep the law. we are an unique creation in Christ called the New Creation, the New Man and we are eternaly saved by the one who saved us.

ask the question why did they have to lay hands on the people in Samaria to receive the Holy Ghost? (if you find the answer you will be surprised because it has nothing to do with receiveing the Holy Ghost at all.) Paul needed it too in Acts 9 and other than John the Baptist's 12 disciples Paul never laid hands on any one to receive the Holy Ghost. When one has the Holy Ghost one is saved and it can't be removed because in this dispensation it is the sign or earnest of your redemption of the purchased possesion.

We been through this before, but the removal of the name in the lambs book of life in Revelation is for another dispensation or division of Time, the Great Tribulation (dividing the Word of truth iliminates any confusion as to eternal salvation). In the Great Tribulation there is no salvation by grace through faith alone. that method of salvation is removed with Christ's body, and reverts back to one of Law of Israel. So their salvation is not just faith they must add works with their faith. and if they do bad works they can have their names removed. so it is not talking about a Christian in Revelation it is speaking of a person who will be a subject in a kingdom. they are not part of the Body of Christ, that is finished before the Great Tribulation.
I don't believe as you do about Salvation changing in your so called dispensations, as we've been through before. Concerning loosing ones salvation, I still think it is possible for one to excersice their free will and choose not to make Christ Jesus their Lord and Saviour. I know some may say that they never had salvation, and therefore could not loose it. I can't speak against that myself, only God can say with all certainty if someone was His or wasn't. What I can say is that I know people that in no uncertain terms was a Christian in faith, and practice, and now denies Jesus Christ and all notions of a creator and doesn't want to have any part in our blessed hope. It is my belief that this person failed the one condition upon which our salvation rests: faith on Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 10:38-39 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

2 Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

2 Peter 2:20-22 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.


I think sometimes I'm not getting through with what I believe. I do believe that it is by faith on Jesus Christ ALONE that saves us, but where I part from most of you is that I believe that we are called to good works in Christ Jesus, and that this IS a sign of belonging to Him.

Titus 2:11-15 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Concerning laying on of hands, please explain your take on this further. I've never heard anyone expound upon this before and you've stoked my curiousity.

Much Love in Christ Jesus,
Stephen