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Old 07-18-2009, 11:01 AM
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PaulB PaulB is offline
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Northwest of England
Posts: 158
Default Amanda & Forest

I do think that you are onto something here because as I see it we must never overlook the fact that sin is the rebellion of sinners – yes sin is an act, but it is the outworkings of the heart (people sin because their nature is evil and not because they are unaware that God loves them). Christ will judge and condemn sinners to the lake of fire forever (not just the memory of their outward acts – but the actual people who carried them out).

Now concerning the idea that God was a God of wrath in the OT and that now in NT He has been changed into a God of tolerance is totally unscriptural. In the OT we had the law (but that doesn’t mean to say that only the Israelis who disobeyed it were transgressors), it means that everyone was a transgressor.

In the NT it is very similar in the sense that those who are under covenant are held up as examples of their owner – but it differs greatly when it applies to the world (as they are not under grace, but a slow ticking clock).

Christians are under grace, but that doesn’t mean to say that the entire human race is under that same grace. They are still enemies of God (even though His love has been made manifest to them) but like I said earlier, it only intensifies their present position as His enemies unless they respond to that love and hand over the reigns.

There are many occasions where God’s anger at sinners (not just their acts) are illustrated in the NT:

Mt.23:13-15 “But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.”

Rv.6:15-17 “And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

Rv.14:9-11 “And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”

Rv.16:16 “And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.”

It just doesn’t ring true to me that the only real crime that sinners are guilty of under this “new dispensation of grace” is that they send themselves to a lost eternity because they were uninformed about a Jesus who loved them and that God was powerless to do anything.

To even hint at the thought that He wasn’t angry with them – but only their works is totally unscriptural.

Rm.2:5-8 “But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,”

Mt.22:2-7 “The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come. Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them. But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

Hb.10:26-29 “For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

You just need to listen to men like Art Katz to be convinced of the mighty acts of God against His enemies.

God bless