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Old 06-22-2009, 06:22 PM
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tonybones2112 tonybones2112 is offline
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 754

Originally Posted by Luke View Post
The simple fact is OT saints were not saved the same way as us, and ANY baptist will admit this, whether your name is Winman or George.

1) When an OT saint dies, where does he go?
2) When a NT saint dies, where does he go?

3) Why does an OT saint go to paradise?
4) Why does a NT saint go to heaven?

5) How did the OT saint get to paradise?
6) How did the OT saint get to heaven?
7) How does the NT saint get to heaven?

And here are the answers. If you don't agree winman, correct me... I assume you will know the Bible verses for this. This is generally one of the first things new Christians learn after accepting the KJB as final authority, and studying Hell (every new young KJB believer has a fascination with hell and damnation for some reason, and preaching it non stop, until they learn more about God's grace).

1) Paradise/Abraham's Bosom
2) Heaven

3) He goes to paradise because his sins are covered by animals blood, not washed away
4) He goes to heaven because his sins are washed away by Jesus blood

5) He goes to paradise by trusting in the shed blood of the sacrifices to cover his sin, which were part of the LAW, and which were necessary to show one's faith. Faith + Law.
6) He gets to heaven after he waits in paradise for Jesus Christ shed blood to WASH away his sins
7) He gets to heaven by trusting in the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

Ultimately, both ARE saved the same way, by the blood of Jesus Christ. You gotta get past the faith alone bit. It's not important. What is important is that all men are saved by the BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST. Your faith means nothing if it's not in the blood. Faith in the OT was not in Jesus, nor was it in his shed blood. It was in pictures of his shed blood, which were part of the LAW.
Good message brother.

This "only one gospel in the Bible" is the wadded-up-in-a-ball theology of John R. Rice. "Fine Old Testament Christians who looked forward to the cross..." There were no Christians in the OT, and OT Jews were and will be in the Tribulation saved in a different manner than the Body of Christ:

Ac 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

This was the gospel of Peter and the other 11: You murdered your Messiah, He died for you, be prepared for the wrath to come of Joel 2. The kingdom of heaven is at hand!

John 20:9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must
rise again from the dead.

Ga 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

Ro 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man‘s foundation:

Acts 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,
7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.
8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas.
9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.
10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.
11 Therefore loosing from Troas, we came with a straight course to Samothracia, and the next day to Neapolis;
12 And from thence to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of Macedonia, and a colony: and we were in that city abiding certain days.

This is the verse that is overlooked and ignored, not commented on, and least of all believed:

Php 4:15 Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.

The 12 surrendered the five commissions given to them by a risen Christ to Paul, Paul began to preach but was forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach where Peter, James, and John had already preached and established churches.

Ro 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Ro 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

Is Paul's gospel the same gospel as the Everlasting Gospel of Revelation, as Brandon pointed out?

I'm at odds with quit a few of my Grace brethren who came out of mostly IFB and other fundamentalist churches because they still holding to the unScriptural "seven" dispensations of CI Scofield: There are only 3, Time past, But now, Ages to come.

The preaching of the cross is what saves, not dispensationalism, and anyone who wants to believe there is only "one gospel" in the Scriptures is free to do so and has a lot of company: Every Roman Catholic on the planet.

Grace and peace friends


Last edited by tonybones2112; 06-22-2009 at 06:25 PM. Reason: typo