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Originally Posted by chette777
Winman,
We need to be very careful in making the churches of Rev 2-3 to churches today
Again we need to rightly divide Rev 3. While some believe they are church age churches other believe they are Jewish Tribulational Churches. The reason being of all the scriptures from Rev2-3 stating one to ENDURE, REPENT, and OVERCOMETH in order, eat of the tree of life (we have life in Christ), shall not be hurt by the second death (we are free from wrath which is the second death), receive the morning star (we have already received Christ), will not have ones name removed from the book of life (our names are already written in the book of life securely never to be removed), be clothed in white raiment(we are already clothed in His righteousness), be made a pillar in the temple of God (we are already the temple), be able to sit with Christ on his throne (we are already seated in the heavenlies with the Lord)
Can you see the theological problems you would run into if this is the church age churches. Remember the book of Revelation is Prophecy not past you see. These are futuristic churches in the tribulation. if you make them churches today you will nullify all that Christ has done and you could teach that you can loose your salvation and position in Christ.
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Chette,
I have always held to the teaching of four levels of application of the letters to seven (age of grace) churches: 1) actual, historic 2) Applying to all churches throughout history (admonitory), 3) personal (each letter applies to each of us), and 4) prophetic of all church history with precision, and would not be so if in any other order. Interestingly, each of the letters can be related to one of Paul's epistles. It is intriguing that Paul also wrote letters to seven churches (assuming he wrote Hebrews which I believe he did) and there is a parallel to Jesus' letters. These factors tend to tie the letters to the gentile church age, in my view.
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Remember the book of Revelation is Prophecy not past you see.
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Christ commands John to: Revelation 1:19-20 Write the things [
U]which thou hast seen[/U], and the things
which are, and the things
which shall be hereafter; The mystery of the seven stars which
thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which
thou sawest are the seven churches.
The seven stars (angels of the churches) and seven candlesticks (churches) are the things which John
hast seen. Of course, most of the age of grace gentile church age was still future in John's day but this seems to indicate the letters are before the tribulation starts.
On the other hand, the things you mention have always bothered me, like I was missing something.
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ENDURE, REPENT, and OVERCOMETH in order, eat of the tree of life (we have life in Christ), shall not be hurt by the second death (we are free from wrath which is the second death), receive the morning star (we have already received Christ), will not have ones name removed from the book of life (our names are already written in the book of life securely never to be removed), be clothed in white raiment(we are already clothed in His righteousness), be made a pillar in the temple of God (we are already the temple), be able to sit with Christ on his throne (we are already seated in the heavenlies with the Lord)
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Also, Jesus gave seven kingdom parables in Matthew 13. I don't remember if they relate to the letters, I would hazard a guess that they do.
Rev 2 & 3 certainly have multiple levels of meaning for the gentile church age (dispensation of grace) but do they have their final and most literal fulfillment in the tribulation church? I just think the meaning of the letters are so much deeper than we imagine. They are words spoken by our glorified Saviour. Jesus seems to be in the Holy of Holies in chap 1 in a Priestly role. "Priest" and "Intercessor" aren't used from Romans through Philemon. Perhaps the seven letters to seven churches fullest meaning and and most literal fulfillment (from our viewpoint today in the Laodicean church period) can't be understood by anyone but the tribulation saints.
Do you have any teaching material on your view that you could share? My stuff is just gleaned from Chuck Missler years ago.
http://www.khouse.org/6640/BP012/
Jennifer
Edit: Sorry, I don't mean to hijack threads.