[George]

Part of Brother Parrish's quote from Post #92:

"I'm not sure anyone replied to you, but I would refer any readers to the passage in Acts 19, when Paul came to Ephesus on his third preaching trip, he found some disciples there and asked them some very important questions..."

Acts 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

"We can see in the passage above how the men remarked that they knew only the baptism of John. Paul responded by CLEARLY explaining why John's baptism was different (verse 4). John's baptism looked FORWARD to the coming of Jesus. Obviously, Jesus had not yet died when John baptized people. John's was a baptism of preparation looking FORWARD to Jesus' death" (see Matthew 3:3).

Aloha brother Parrish,

Please carefully re-read the Scriptures that you quoted. Paul is not saying that "John's was a baptism of preparation looking FORWARD to Jesus' death". Paul clearly said: "Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus." [Acts 19:4]

The "Gospel" (the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) is not mentioned here, and is not in view. Instead John was saying to "the people" (the nation of Israel - Hebrews/Jews ONLY) that "they" (ISRAEL) - "should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus." At the time of John's ministry the Israelites (Hebrews/Jews) could not possibly have been required "to believe" in something that had not yet occured. At the time of John's ministry the Israelites were required "to believe on Him" - i.e. that He was indeed their Messiah & King. He hadn't been crucified YET- He hadn't died for any one's sins YET. How could they have been required to believe in something that hadn't been REVEALED to anyone YET?

While I believe that water Baptism is for the believer today - I can not agree with your comment: "John's was a baptism of preparation looking FORWARD to Jesus' death". The Scriptures clearly states exactly WHAT John's Baptism was for:

John the Baptist's "ministry" had no more "connection" to a modern Baptist preacher's "ministry" than Moses or any of the other Hebrew Prophets in the Old Testament do.

John the Baptist was a Hebrew Prophet to the nation of Israel only:

Luke 7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

John the Baptist was a Hebrew Prophet to the nation of Israel only - who went before the Lord "in the spirit and power of Elias".

Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

John the Baptist was a Hebrew Prophet to the nation of Israel only - who was:

Matthew 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Mark 1:3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Luke 3:4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

John 1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.

The Lord Jesus Christ was baptized in water to "fulfill all righteousness" [Matthew 3:15] and so that: "He should be made manifest to Israel". To which John the Baptist testified. [John 1: 29-34]

Matthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

John the Baptist was baptizing "the baptism of repentance" (the same "baptism" that Apollos preached years later- Acts 18:25) and that is why he (John) objected to baptizing Jesus - because He (the Lord) was sinless and had no sins to "repent" of!

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Mark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

The main "purpose" for baptizing the Lord Jesus Christ in water was to reveal ("manifest") Him to the nation of Israel:

John 1:25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?
26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.
28 These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.

31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.

32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

John the Baptist testified that the Lord Jesus Christ was "the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world" [John 1:29,36], but his Baptism was a Baptism of/unto repentance for the nation of Israel (Hebrews/Jews) ONLY, and had nothing to do with: "a baptism of preparation looking FORWARD to Jesus' death".

John's Baptism had to do with MANIFESTING (revealing) Jesus Christ to Israel (as their Messiah & King); it had to do with calling Israel (after 400 years of "SILENCE" and NO PROPHETS) to "REPENTANCE" (turning away from their sins and turning unto God); it had to do with preparing ("making straight") the people of Israel so that they would receive their Messiah & King; it had to do with a lot of things {i.e. "the fullness of time"}, but every single one of them was in relation to Israel - NOT the church.

While I believe that brother Tony is wrong about water Baptism not being for the New Testament believer (I know of NO commandment "PROHIBITING" the practice); I would not "break fellowship" with him unless - unless he became "obtuse" and/or overbearing on the subject.

I have treated brother Tony with "kid gloves" because, although we disagree on this issue, his conduct has been exemplary on this Forum, and other than letting it be known as to what he believes, he did not "push" the issue.

I believe there are some members on the Forum who may be of the Pentecostal/Charismatic "persuasion", but who have chosen not to get involved in a "knock-down" drag-out argument over their convictions. Again, as long as they don't "push" their beliefs on the rest of us, I have no problem with them participating on the Forum.

Brother Tim and I are "far apart" on some issues, and have had a few dust-ups, but there is one thing that I am "pretty sure of", and that is we are in agreement on the major doctrines (the Fundamentals) and he is my brother in the Lord. Someday God is going to "straighten" both of us out - in regards to where we were "OFF" on our doctrine. Until then I shall endeavor to treat him with the love and respect that is due him as a fellow brother in Christ and as a member of God's household. I will do the same for brother Tony, unless (or until) he gets out of hand.