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Old 06-03-2009, 05:36 AM
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Greektim Greektim is offline
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Beaufort, NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonybones2112 View Post
Eph. 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Tim, forgive me for saying this, but I think you are hung up on prefabbed, preconceived scholastic theological "systems". The answer to your, to me, incorrect assumption here can be found by reading Eph. 3, backing up two chapters, reading, then going forward 3 chapters, and letting the Scriptures interpret themselves rather than interpreting them through a prefabbed theological "system". Correct me if I am wrong, I think you want to force the present church, the present Body, back into Acts 2 under Peter. That church no longer exists and will not exist until such a time as the departure of this Church out of the world takes place.

Ro 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Ro 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Ro 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Ro 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be [B]graffed into their own olive tree?/B]

Just as the three Biblical dispensations are found in Eph. 2, all three churches I demonstrated to you is found in these passages in Romans 11:

The Olive Tree- The Messianic/Apostolic church of Peter, James, and John, Believing Israel, you prophesied church of Matt. 16.

The Wild Branches- The mystery Body of Eph. 3. made up of Jews and Gentiles, equal. Nowhere in the OT was it ever said, spoken, prophesied, that Gentiles would ever be equal to Israel.

Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

Gen. 28:14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORDíS house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

In the OT no Gentile could be exalted without the exaltation of Israel. "But now":

Ro 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

It is nowhere revealed in the OT that the Gentiles would receive salvation APART from Israel and her rise, but now, through Israel's fall we are made nigh by the blood of Christ. Don;t read your theology brother, read Eph. 2.

The Natural Branches- National Israel that was broken off for unbelief but will be grafted in again in the Tribulation when they again believe to form the basis for the Millenial Kingdom under Christ.

I don't know what "progressive dispensationalism" is. I mean, I know 20 people who claim to be P/Ds, and have 20 different definitions of what it is.
Paul's revelation of the three dispensations was not "prograssive", it was hid in God before Genesis 1:1 until revealed to Paul. Brother Tim, if you're going to understand what I am saying then you are going to have chuck "progressive" dispensationalism and understand progressive revelation.
Peter, James, and John had no idea of Paul's message in Eph. 2 and 3. Thus:

Ga 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

The Olive Tree was the Messianic church prophesied in Matt.16 and fulfilled in Acts 2, Believing Israel. The Natural Branches, national Israel, were broken off in Acts 7 with the murder of Stephen. The Wild Branches were called by Paul, the Jewish-Gentile Body, and grafted into the Olive Tree in Acts 15, as recounted in Gal. 2.

Your turn...

Grace and peace

Tony
I am trying to stay with the concept that the Church is a mystery. My last post did not have anything to do with a prefabbed theological construct. But I'll admit I do that. But you would be foolish to say that you don't. For me, I let the Scriptures speak for themselves and interpret them as an observer. Also, my Bibliology versus your Bibliology will play a part in this. I don't see a "church" in the OT or in the Trib. I see the Church as a distinct paranthesis starting at Acts 2 & ending at the Rapture. Acts uses ekklesia multiple ways (see, different views on the Bible).

Anyhow, I'll readily admit that Ephesians teaches things about the Church. Goodness, that is an understatement. But I would ask for one passage that states the Church is a mystery. It seems you are turning what might be implied (the Church is a mystery) back onto the text (i.e. a prefabbed construct system).