Aloha brother CKG,
Please explain -
WHAT IS
THE GIFT OF GOD in these verses?
Quote:
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Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
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Please Notice: The "GIFT" is described as being
BY Grace - It is not said to be the "GIFT"
OF GRACE.
Quote:
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
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Back in 03-04-2008 Forum member Stvvv1611 (Steven Rich) started posting on this very subject (actually the issue began about the "
difference" between Old Testament Salvation and New Testament Salvation, but it soon developed into an exposition on the "difference" between the "faith" of those saints
before the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ and the "faith" of the saints
after Christ's sacrifice and resurrection.) That is the "difference" between:
OLD TESTAMENT
Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but
the just shall live by his faith.
NEW TESTAMENT
Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith:
as it is written,
The just shall live by faith. {What happened to "
his"?}
Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for,
The just shall live by faith.
Hebrews 10:38 Now
the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Brother Steven made 9 posts (a total of 33 type written pages) most of which are applicable to this issue. I very seldom recommend men's works, however, in this case, brother Steven Rich's "commentary" is far better than anything I might be able to put together, and so I ask you (and anyone else interested) to check out the following links to his articles:
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...8&postcount=58
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...4&postcount=97
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...&postcount=126
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...&postcount=130
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...&postcount=137
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...&postcount=264
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...&postcount=265
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...&postcount=273
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...&postcount=275
This issue is one of those "strong meat" [
Hebrews 5:12-14] matters in Scripture (certainly not "milk") that cannot be "settled" by a cursory examination of the Scriptures; or by our personal "opinions" and/or "feelings" about the issue.
Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
These matters are "the deep things of God" [
1Corinthians 2:10], and as such - are spiritually discerned. There is no need to "surmise" that: "
The idea that God or Jesus has to give us faith is probably rooted in Calvinism." In
Ephesians 2:8 either
GRACE is the "GIFT" or
FAITH is - it
must be
ONE or the
OTHER. HOW a brother in Christ perceives or understands this verse will determine WHERE he ends up on this issue. Brother Steven Rich has written 33 pages supporting brother Steven Monahan's (peopleoftheway) position; and so there is plenty of Scriptural support for brother Monahan's belief, and as you have demonstrated, there is at least some support for yours.
I am too busy (working on another issue) to engage you (or anyone else) on this issue at this time, except to say that - a fellow brother in Christ does NOT have to be a Calvinist in order to believe what brother "peopleoftheway" has presented. I know of several good Christian friends of mine (who are "moderate" dispensationalists) that believe much like brother "peopleoftheway" (Steven Monahan) and brother Steven Rich believe, and who definitely are NOT Calvinists..
Please read ALL of the articles by Steven Rich, and if you do reply to this Post - please have the courtesy to answer the question I posed at the beginning of this Post.
