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Old 03-12-2009, 01:07 AM
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tonybones2112 tonybones2112 is offline
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Originally Posted by stephanos View Post
I was giving him grace. But he kept tossing out that word "hyper..." for some reason and I was trying to understand why he wanted us to know this fact about him.

I personally don't see how the Church could begin at Calvary since the Gospel which saves includes Christ's resurrection.

But anywho, I personally hold to the position that the Church began when the first disciples were sealed with the Holy Ghost at Pentacost. I think that was when the Holy Ghost added the first souls to the Body of Christ which IS the Church.

So to understand this doctrine, it's a matter of first knowing which Gospel we are saved by (the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ out Lord 1 Corinthians 15) and what seals us until the day of redemption (the Holy Ghost [Ephesians 4:30] which sealed the first disciples at Pentacost [Acts 2:4]). Pretty straight forward if you ask me. I think people in the dry cleaners camp get hung up on the fact that Paul was given many manifold revelations (2 Corinthians 12:7). But those were not Gospel changing revelations, nor did they change the mode by which Christians are sealed until redemption.

Peace and Love,
Stephen, thank you for being graceful to me. I'm not being sarcastic either, but sincere. Thank you.

The reason I bring out my dispensational belief right here at the beginning is this: I tried to have a dialogue with Gary Hudson. When he found out that I was holding the inspired Scriptures in my hand, he cut me off, used my words to try and illustrate his own agenda, the same as the Jesuits(the original manuscripts), and branded me a "Ruckmanite". Like I've said before, Doc Pete ain't no Absolom or Ahab, that didn't bother me. Being labeled and marginalized did. This was in 1988.

The middle part of this decade I was a member of several KJV yahoo groups and one Ruckman group. I know Will Kinney online and gave him the number of words in Shakespeare's vocabulary and the number now obsolete, with Chaucer and Poe and the KJV. it took me like 21 months compiling that information. Anyway, I was thrown out of the KJV groups when they found out I wuz one a them thar church splittin' dry cleaners. I was thrown out of the Ruckman group because the Pharisees in that group accused me of being "antinomian" an' one a them thar church splittin' drycleaners.

Brother, so you know the only person to ever emulate(Gal. 5:20) Dr. peter Sturges Ruckman's bitter sarcasm and facetiousness?

Dr. Peter Sturges Ruckman.

The Pharisaic attitude didn't upset me, being labeled and marginalized did. When I am called "hyperdispensationalist drycleaner" it marginalizes the fact I'm willing to be hit on the street with a syphilis-infected bag of urine for the gospel of Christ as you are, or any other Christian. I'm not a cussword, I'm an ambassador for Christ, a minister of the reconsiliation to wit, God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself. Don't call me a drycleaner, it might make me cry.

No one will agree with you more about Paul's manifold revelations than a grace believer like me. Paul had the signs of an apostle till he no longer was witness to Israel alone. He baptized in water till the signs of an apostle were taken from him.

1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

No one will let Paul be a wise masterbuilder more than me. He laid his foundation and then it was grafted into the Body of Christ that the 12 apostles were given. I take heed that I do not baptize in water Jews who are to be a kingdom of priests but let the Holy Ghost circumcise my listener's spirits from them and baptizing them into the Body Of Christ, where there is no Jew or Gentile. I respectfully disagree with you on Acts 2 being the beginning of the Body. He was buried yes, he was resurrected, yes, he added TO this Body on Pentecost. But for Him to be buried and resurrected first he had to die, ergo, the Body began at Calvary when He said, it is finished.

The Body began.

Brother, if the truth of water baptism first occurring in Leviticus 8 to first consecrate a Levite splits your church, that church is not held together by the Holy Spirit but by an ordinance of the law of Moses. If it hears it, and is not split, it is then held together by the Holy Spirit of God. God spilts churches, not men. Stam was the wedge that split the grace believers 25 years ago with Calvinism and the belief in the original manuscript fraud.

You may have chapter and verse on the Grace Movement's teaching on water baptism when I answer your message to me on the topic.

Grace and peace to you Stephen, thank you for at least reading this.