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Old 07-01-2009, 06:13 PM
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George George is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
Posts: 891
Default Re: " Dispensational Truth and Error"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish View Post
George, I have to give you credit there.
I notice you agree with Greenbear's "assessment" of Ironside, yet you ALSO pretty much agree with Ironside's negative view of Hyperdispensationalism, something that Greenbear has indicated she may be leaning toward. That's pretty good diplomacy, brother.

Brothers and Sisters:

I haven't made a lot of posts on this thread, but in reflecting on some of these comments, it has occurred to me that I have seen good Christians beaten up and spurned because they do not agree with one view of dispensationalism over another. I have seen KJV believers have their very SALVATION questioned because they do not subscribe to some "construct" of division. I have seen good people on this forum become bitter and wage vicious attacks about details that even they THEMSELVES do not all agree on, even in their own little "camps." At times I have seen a pompous spirit rise up, which seems to suggest there is only ONE WAY of "rightly dividing" and no other could possibly be correct. I am convinced that much of this has more to do with personal friendships and alliances than it does with scriptural ABSOLUTES. Still, we put up our banners of interpretation and stake out territories, as though any of us could possibly come to a different conclusion in the end that ALL MEN are saved THROUGH THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.

This is all very sad, because even the men who have promoted various forms of Hyperdispensationalism, Ultra-dispensationalism, etc. do not all agree on some of these doctrines, and some have even changed their doctrines over the years to better suit their own constructs!

There are Ultras and Hypers on one end, there are non-dispensationalists on the other. A lot of us are somewhere in the middle. As you all know by now, I consider myself to be a moderate dispensationalist. Yes, I feel that Hyperdispensationalism is a chain of errors and an unworthy distraction, yes I get concerned when I see attacks on Biblical doctrines of believer's baptism and the Lord's supper, but that does not mean we should become hateful or angry at one another.

I have come to a conclusion over these last few weeks.
Whether you choose to base your views on the confusion of Cornelius Stam or proudly cherry-pick the heresies of Bullingerism, I think we can all agree on one thing: CONDEMNING OTHERS about DIVIDING can DIVIDE THIS FORUM. Folks, let's pray for each other, and lift up Christ.
Aloha brother Parish,

I appreciate the compliment - but WHY do I have to be "agreeing" with Harry Ironside (or anybody else for that matter)? I have stated what I believe about some "dispensational" issues from my personal studies from the Bible - NOT from my studies of some MEN. WHY do "men" have to enter into the "equation" at all? I have been honest and forthright about my beliefs, WHY must you place me in "One Camp" or "Another", or on "One Side" or the "Other"? And WHY are you attempting to put words in my mouth concerning Hyper-Dispensationalism? My beliefs did NOT come from studying some man (Ironside), they came from studying the Holy words of God - Harry Ironside had absolutely NOTHING to do with what I believe.

If the way that you have presented the "problem" that exists on this Forum were true - it would be quite easy to “FIX”! The "problem" is NOT just over "rightly dividing the word of truth"! The problem goes much "deeper", and has to do with people (Winman in this case) NOT "owning up" to making "FALSE CLAIMS" and failing to admit to those "FALSE CLAIMS" when they are PROVEN TO BE "FALSE"!

The "problem" is NOT just the brethren agreeing to "disagree" - it has to do with people (Winman) making "FALSE ACCUSATIONS" and when those "accusations" are PROVEN to be "FALSE", failing to admit his offense.

The "problem" is NOT just a disagreement over Dispensational teaching - it has to do with people (Winman again) attributing statements (i.e. "words") to me (and others) that we NEVER SAID!

The "problem" is NOT just a disagreement over some minor doctrinal issues - it has to do with people (Winman again) taking my "words" (and other people's "words" and "wresting" them out of their "context" and then "twisting" them to MAKE them "MEAN" something other than what was really SAID!

The "problem" is NOT over a "difference" of opinion between brethren; NOT when Winman makes ad hominem (personal) attacks against my character, and personally slanders me by accusing me of being a “Pharisee”; of being “pompous”; of being “self-righteous”; of being “arrogant”; and NOT practicing “Christian behavior”. I have pointed all of these things out to you before, and you have completely IGNORED every single offense that Winman has personally made against me. Check my Posts on this issue and see if I ever made such personal attacks on Winman’s character. If I have criticized him or reproved or rebuked him, it has been about his “habit” of “twisting” and “wresting” words; it’s been about how he handles the word of God, but I NEVER engaged in “personal attacks” on his character or called into question - his "Christian behavior" – and yet NONE OF THESE THINGS “MEANS” ANYTHING TO YOU!

The "problem" is NOT just a minor difference with another brother in Christ. Winman has been continually (ad nauseum) NAYSAYING and DISAGREEING with practically every single person who has started a Thread or made Posts in relation to the subject of Dispensationalism or "rightly dividing the word of truth". He even started his own "Thread" on the subject {"Dispensational Truth and Error"> which was actually written by someone else: "Pastor" Lee Spencer - who ADDED to, and CHANGED the word of God to "prove" a theological point; which doesn't seem to "bother" Winman one little bit! But does it "bother" you?}

HOW do you "FIX" these "PROBLEMS"? The "problem" is NOT as simple as you have portrayed it; and it is not going to go away.

Now, for your information, Over the past year and a half, I have had some pretty sharp differences with Brother Tim (over some of these same issues); I have had some differences with brother Sammy Tabuena (Biblestudent - a pastor from
Iloilo, in the Philippines); and I do not always agree with brother Chette (a missionary on the Island of Palawan, in the Philippines). And what of brother tonybones? He and I both know that there are some doctrinal "differences" between us.

Can you satisfactorily explain WHY it is that we have never engaged in this kind of contentious strife? WHY is it that I still get along with them? Could it be that they do NOT make "FALSE CLAIMS" or make "FALSE ACCUSATIONS"? Could it possibly be that even though we have our differences, that they have NEVER "wrested" my words out of "context"? Could it be that they have NEVER "twisted" my words to MAKE them say something other than what I actually said? Could it be because they have NEVER called me POMPUS, ARROGANT, SELF-RIGHTEOUS or a PHARISEE? WHY is it that you CANNOT (or will not) “judge righteous judgment” in this matter?


Instead of “generalizing” with: “CONDEMNING OTHERS about DIVIDING can DIVIDE THIS FORUM.WHY don’t you check out my Posts to see IF I ever “CONDEMED” Winman (or anyone else for that matter) “about DIVIDING”! And if you cannot find a Thread or a Post where I truly “CONDEMNED” (NOTcriticized”, “admonished”, “reproved”, or “rebuked”) someone over NOT “rightly dividing the word of truth” – BUT where I actually “CONDEMNED” them, I will gladly apologize. But if you cannot find where I ever “CONDEMNED” someone over this issue – WHY do you “generalize” and include any or all of us in an ACCUSATION that is UNFOUNDED?

This is what comes from NOT being “specific” about a matter. When you are specific about issues they can be dealt with (one thing at a time - if necessary). When you deal in “BROAD GENERALITIES” nothing can be solved because no one knows for sure WHO or WHAT you are referring to!

Papering over” the individual issues involved in this contentious dispute will NOT solve the “problem”. I have NOT made “CLAIMS” that can be PROVEN FALSE! I have NOT made FALSE ACCUSATIONS against Winman! I have NOTtwisted” or “wrested” Winman’s words! I have NOT taken his words out of “context” and MADE them say something other than what he SAID! I have NOT attributed to Winman statements that he NEVER MADE! I have NOT engaged in a personal attack on Winman’s character or called into question his “Christian behavior”. He HAS DONE all of the above, and until (or unless) he “makes things right”, I will avoid having anything to do with him.

Now, you will notice that I haven’t even mentioned Winman’s mis-use and abuse of the Holy Scriptures. I thought that , since he has chosen to make this “personal”, that I would keep our disagreements confined to his conduct concerning myself and keep my comments about his handling of the word of God out of the discussion.

Judging righteous judgment is not that difficult – IF a person knows what the Scriptures say about judgment, and IF they believe the Scriptures enough to follow and obey them.