[George]

Julianus, Julianus, Julianus,

WHY have you turned this "discussion" into a personal attack on my person? HOW is it that you are "judging" my heart motives and my character - when you don't even know me?

Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

You have a "PROBLEM" my friend - Read my Post #11 this Thread AGAIN. Did I attack you personally? Did I judge your Motives? Did I pass judgment on your spiritual condition? Did I comment on your walk with God? Hmmm?

If I didn't - then WHY are you attacking me personally instead of dealing with the "issues"? Could it possibly be that as far as the "issues" are concerned that you are wrong? Could it be that instead of being willing to accept the fact fact that you are wrong, that you have lashed out at me for pointing out the error of your ways? [Galatians 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?]

"Thanks George … (& Debau – I’m still reading through your addendum & appraisal of George’s post) … for expounding a mass of Scriptures, however – being able to recite/quote/print or cut/paste numerous Scriptures via the use of various search functions or e-swords (mind you, these sources were unavailable to early believers who depended on the ‘inspired Word’ just as much as today’s disciples) does NEITHER improve the standing NOR the authority of those who make use of many words – without having the Holy Spirit anoint them."

In order to "expound a mass of Scripture" a person has to have some idea WHAT to look for! {That was your 1st. "Cheap shot"!}

HOW is it that you ""KNOW" - WHO is "anointed" by the Holy spirit and WHO is NOT? You have never met me (or Debau). You have never heard me preach or teach. You have never fellowshipped or prayed with me. HOW does a "Christian" go about "judging" another Christian without ever having met them or having spent any time with them? HOW can you tell whether I am "anointed" by the Holy Spirit - or NOT? Hmmm? Accusing Debau and myself of: "without having the Holy Spirit anoint them." {That was your 2nd. "cheap shot"!}

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

1 John 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

For your information: I have the same "anointing" that ALL born again Christians have. I was given "an unction from the Holy One" the day that I was saved in October, 1958. {The same "unction" that all God's children have} You see - I don't believe that some Christians are "anointed" and others aren't! If a person is genuinely saved (i.e. born again) they have the Holy Spirit living in them, and as such, anyone who is born again of the Holy Spirit of God has received the "anointing" - not just preachers, teachers, etc.

"Your mode of answer in ‘list-form’ simply confirms that you might ‘spiritually’ not be as far removed from the Pharisees as you’d perhaps wished – or convinced yourself you are."

{That was your 3rd. "Cheap Shot"!}

The fact that I use Scripture when addressing an issue is "proof" that I am a Pharisee? Has God given you a special "anointing" to read other people's hearts? I trow not!

"The man is to be pitied, whose sole claim to being on the ‘true way’, is to repeatedly quote passages and Scriptures from a book. It is equally as futile as when Mormons, Muslims and other misguided religious zealots repeatedly quote from their (un)holy books – something we Christians readily denounce as invalid arguments. Without the anointing from God, he is just a parrot – and ‘Rivers of Living Water’ do NOT quench the thirst of souls whom the Lord might call unto Himself, ready for repentance."

So now - I'm to be "pitied"? {That is your 4th. "Cheap Shot"!} And then you compare me with "Cultists" (Mormons); "Infidels" (Muslims); and "misguided religious zealots" who "quote from their un-holy books". {That is your 5th. "Cheap Shot"!}

I don't just "quote passages and Scriptures from a book." THE BOOK that I quote IS SCRIPTURE! It's NOT just "a book"! The King James Bible is NOT just "a book" - it's THE BOOK of God!

"But ‘HOW’ does one really know? Until God speaks to a man’s heart, tugs on the strings of conscience, answers a seeking heart, opens to a knocking soul and lets an asking searcher receive – the individual doesn’t know which book or which God is the true one."

So, according to you, - ultimately a person can only determine the Truth (or what is True) by "feelings" or "personal experience". But HOW can a person know whether it is the One True God that: "peaks to a man’s heart, tugs on the strings of conscience, answers a seeking heart, opens to a knocking soul and lets an asking searcher receive" or whether it is the "god of this world"? Hmmm? The only way to discern between the two is to "search the Scriptures" - whether you agree or not matters little to God. He has commanded us to "search the Scriptures" to verify whether something (or someone) is True or not.

"Of course God’s Words are not dead Scriptures (you really like to be a stickler, aren’t you ;-), and you might have put a little spin on what I wrote there . . . personally I feel that only a ‘learned & showy’ Pharisee would pretend not to have understood the context here . . ."

To accuse me of being "a ‘learned & showy’ Pharisee " {That is your 6th. "Cheap Shot"!} simply because I repeated what you wrote, is the height of hypocrisy! I didn't "spin" anything - I simply quoted what you said, and then proceeded to demonstrate (according to the Scriptures - which you don't seem to like very much) why you were wrong. Why not "prove" me wrong - rather than attack me personally?

"Rather, the point so well confirmed by your reply, the simple quoting of Scriptures in itself is ‘dead’ > WITHOUT the anointing of the Holy Spirit. Of course, you say, you have anointing – who can doubt it? Many posts are ample proof of your ability to wield the sword. The Pharisees also, when they brought the adulteress to Jesus, didn’t lie when quoting the Scriptures/Law. However, their intent was to use the law to kill the woman, and trap or destroy Jesus. Jesus had compassion. He was the only one who could have cast the first stone. But he didn’t. Instead he confounded the ‘learned’ and ‘saved’ the life of the sinner. He came to save. He came to ‘touch our lives’."

{Intimating that I am a Pharisee (again!) - That is your 7th. "Cheap Shot"!}

So, once again, are you claiming that God has given you a "gift" of being able to determine WHO is "anointed" when they quote Scripture - and WHO is NOT? Do you even realize WHAT you are saying? If I am saved (born again) I have the Holy Spirit living in me (all saved people have the Holy Spirit living in them). You "dare" to question my motives (the "intents" of my heart)? You dare to judge whether I am "anointed" or not! [Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.]

"I believe, in this case, following Scripture could be meaningful to you: Proverbs 18:13; He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him. And I believe you might have ‘assumed’ and mis-interpreted where my argument for ‘personal conviction’ possibly was headed. There was no ‘inkling’ or hint that ‘mine, or anyone’s, personal convictions’ are what saves me/anyone."

I didn't "assume" or "misinterpret" anything. I took what you posted, and examined it in the light of the Holy Scriptures, and found it (your Post) to be contrary to "sound doctrine". I was simply obeying what the Scriptures have commanded me to do:
[Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.]

It is obvious to me that you are not interested in a civil discourse between brethren, but instead, when you cannot (or will not) refute a Scripturally based remonstrance against your "personal opinions" you revert to "attacking the messenger instead of the message".

"Dear George, am I (and other readers) to understand from your post/replies, that you have NOT been ‘touched’ by the Lord, and that your ‘spouting forth’ of Scriptures is solely based on your experience in reading & arguing a book? You base your lofty answers on the head-knowledge you’ve acquired (quote) in your 50 years of being saved? Like waving around some sort of magic wand and posturing for the best Scripturally defensible position?"

Your "subtle" and "clever" insinuating that: "you have NOT been ‘touched’ by the Lord" {That is your 8th. "Cheap Shot"!} is over the top! What does it mean to be "touched by the Lord"? Hmmm? Is a "Christian" that is "touched by the Lord" better than other Christians - Or more spiritual than other Christians? I have checked the Holy Scriptures and cannot find the phrase "touched by the Lord" in the entire Bible. Is this some "New Doctrine"? (Possibly some "New Pentecostal/Charismatic Doctrine"?)

You have accused me of: "your ‘spouting forth’"; "waving around some sort of magic wand"; and "posturing" - when I never accused you of anything (the only thing I did was refute your assertions). {Is that your 9th, 10th, & 11th "Cheap Shots"?}

And then your accusation: "that your ‘spouting forth’ of Scriptures is solely based on your experience in reading & arguing a book?" again shows your disdain for the Holy Bible - which I have already stated is NOT JUST "A BOOK"!

"If you have had some ‘real’ contact with our Lord Jesus, whom you profess, I must say that your posts reflect very little of the compassion, hope and tears which He shed & shared with us."

There you go - AGAIN! Judging me and my character without knowing the first thing about me! How does a "sensitive", "loving", "caring" "Christian" do that? Hmmm?

You have NO IDEA how much "contact" I have had with my Lord and Saviour over the past 50 years. But for you to judge me by my response to your "assertions" and "personal opinions" is both "presumptuous" and not very "compassionate" on your part. Have you never dealt with a real man before - Who is willing to contend with you and not put up with your "personal opinions"?

"And if you had some Holy Spirit touch in your life, something which made it possible for you to have hope, to believe that God is a personal God for YOU, then there was no need for you to write that long (dead) list of Scriptures which every sincere seeker can get himself from a Concordance or Digital Bible. Without compassion.

And if you haven’t had the personal touch or conviction in your own life – then you’re only a theoretician.

Puffed up by head knowledge, no good to anyone laying on the road side (in the world), waiting for a ‘neighbour’, waiting for a Samaritan to come along.

... and Debau, I fear your eagerness to applaud George and copy his style didn’t really do you any favours. But more to your post later.
Good night ; -)"

And so we come to the end of your little diatribe and accusations:

You stated: "if you had some Holy Spirit touch in your life" - how would you know whether the Holy Spirit "touched" me or NOT?

You said: "there was no need for you to write that long (dead) list of Scriptures which every sincere seeker can get himself from a Concordance or Digital Bible. Without compassion." I use a lot of Scripture in dealing with people because most Christians today are ignorant of the Scriptures, and the Holy words of God are far more important than my "personal opinions". And your continual use of the word "dead" in reference to the Scriptures demonstrates a "disdain" for the Holy words of God - Not very appropriate for a child of God!

Your accusation: And if you haven’t had the personal touch or conviction in your own life – then you’re only a theoretician. {That is your 12th. "Cheap Shot"! And I lost track of all of the "accusations"! Oh, by the way - I do know who "THE ACCUSER" of the brethren is: Revelation 12:10}

Your parting "Cheap Shot" {Is that #13?} - "Puffed up by head knowledge, no good to anyone laying on the road side (in the world), waiting for a ‘neighbour’, waiting for a Samaritan to come along." Is typical of your entire judgmental and accusatory discourse. You have proven by your Post that you are incapable of carrying on a respectful discorse with someone without continually denigrating them and accusing them of things that you can't possibly know about them.

Don't expect another response (from me) to whatever else you may post. I learned long ago (probably before you were born) to avoid insincere and disingenuous people - which you (by your Posts) have "proven" to be.

Proverbs 20:3 It is an honour for a man to cease from strife: but every fool will be meddling.

Proverbs 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

Ecclesiastes 10:12 The words of a wise man's mouth are gracious; but the lips of a fool will swallow up himself.
13 The beginning of the words of his mouth is foolishness: and the end of his talk is mischievous madness.
14 A fool also is full of words: a man cannot tell what shall be; and what shall be after him, who can tell him?