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Old 07-17-2009, 11:31 AM
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George George is offline
 
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Default Re: " CALVINISM: Sound Doctrine?"

Aloha brother Gord,

Your Post #161 this Thread makes very little "sense". Most of the verses that you cited have little or nothing to do with what you are trying to prove. And those verses (that you cited) that may be related (in some small way) to the issue do not "prove" your personal convictions.

I have put together a short essay on some of the apparent "weaknesses" to be found in Calvinism (when compared to the Holy Scriptures); it is my sincere hope that you will prayerfully examine the Scriptures I have presented herein and compare them to the teachings of Calvinism.

The main “Weakness” of Calvinism = A Failure to rightly divide "the word of truth":


Calvinism Fails to DISCERN "who" is being spoken of in numerous Scriptures:

The following is a list of specific words (found in the Scriptures) that Calvinists use to “prove” their doctrines. The Bible words: “elect”, “election”, “elected”, “foreknew”, “foreknowledge”,
foreordained”,ordain”,andordainedare cited with the corresponding verses and where they are found in the Bible. I have tried to “rightly divideWHERE and to WHOM the words should be applied. If anyone is interested in searching out these Scriptures, the color code easily identifies to WHOM I believe the verses should be applied. I would encourage you to “search the Scriptures” to see whether those things that I have presented here are true or not:
Quote:
The word: “ELECT

In reference to GOD
Isaiah 42:1; 1Timothy 5:21; 1 Peter 2:6

In reference to ISRAEL {Jews - Hebrews}
Isaiah 45:4; Isaiah 65:9; Isaiah 65:22; Matthew 24:22; Matthew 24; Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:20; Mark 13:22; Mark 13:27; Luke 18:7

In reference to THE CHURCH {Born Again – Saved}
Romans 8:33; Colossians 3:12; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1; 1 Peter 1:2; 2 John 1:1; 2 John 1:13
According to the Scriptures, the "elect" can be:THE LORD; or Israel (Jews - Hebrews); or the Church (i.e.genuine born again children of God) depending entirely on the context of the verses where the word occurs. The word "elect" is NOT always in reference to born again children of God. The failure to “rightly divide”, i.e. identify who is being spoken of, or who the word applies to leads to the HOMOGENIZING (“Harmonizing”) of the Holy words of God - where clear distinctions in the Scriptures become “blurred” or “lost” altogether; which inevitably leads to FALSE DOCTRINE and HERESY!
Quote:
The word: “ELECTION

In reference to ISRAEL {Jews - Hebrews}
Romans 9: 1-33 [vs. 11]; Romans 11:5; Romans 11:7; Romans 11:28

In reference to THE CHURCH {Born Again – Saved}
1 Thessalonians 1:4; 2 Peter 1:10
Quote:
The word: “ELECTED
In reference to THE CHURCH {Born Again – Saved}
1 Peter 5:13
Quote:
The word: FOREKNEW
In reference to ISRAEL {Jews - Hebrews}
Romans 11:2
Quote:
The word:FOREKNOWLEDGE

In reference to GOD
Acts 2:23

In reference to THE CHURCH {Born Again – Saved}
1 Peter
Quote:
The word: ORDAIN

In reference to ISRAEL {Jews - Hebrews}
1 Chronicles 9:22; 1 Chronicles 17:9; Isaiah 26

In reference to THE CHURCH {Born Again – Saved}
1 Corinthians 7:17; Titus 1:5
Quote:
The word: FOREORDAINED

In reference to GOD
1 Peter 1:20
Quote:
The word: ORDAINED

In reference to GOD
Psalms 8:2; Psalms 8:3; Psalms 132:17; Acts 10:42; Acts 17:31; Romans 13:1; 1 Corinthians 2:7

In reference to ISRAEL {Jews - Hebrews}
Numbers 28:6; 2 Kings 23:5; 2 Chronicles 23:18; 2 Chronicles 29:27; Esther 9:27; Psalms 81:5; Isaiah 30:33; Jeremiah 1:5; Daniel 2:24; Habakkuk 1:12; Mark 3:14; John 15:16; Acts 1:22; Romans 7:10; Galatians 3:19; Hebrews 5:1; Hebrews 8:3; Hebrews 9:6

In reference to THE CHURCH {Born Again – Saved}
Acts 13:48; Acts 14:23; Acts 16:4; 1 Corinthians 9:14; Ephesians 2:10; 1 Timothy 2:7

In reference to EVIL
1 Kings 12:32; 1 Kings 12:332; Chronicles 11:15; Jude 1:4
WHAT is the “BASIS” of God’s “FOREKNOWLEDGE”? {See: http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...44&postcount=9 for additional verses.}

1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied

The Scriptures clearly state that the “Elect” are according to the “foreknowledge” of God the Father – But the BASIS of “foreknowledge” is not clearly defined in the above verse.
Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
In the above verse - “Foreknowledge” is clearly defined as God “knowing”, ahead of time, about events that were going to take place in the future.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

In the above verse those: “whom he did “foreknow” are “predestined to be conformed to the image of his son”. Are all Christians “conformed” to the “image” of Christ today? Has there ever been a time in church history when they were? This verse is not talking about “getting Saved”; it’s talking about how “whom he did “foreknow” (all those who have been saved - born again) will someday be just like Jesus Christ. [1Corinthians 15:49] The BASIS of God’s “foreknowledge” is NOT explained (or defined) in the verse – only the fact that all thosewhom he did foreknow are predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.” To be “conformed to the image of His Son” is the ultimate destiny of every single person (man, woman, or child) that has ever BELIEVED in the Lord Jesus Christ!

Let’s examine the verses cited [Ephesians 1:4-8] in context and “rightly divide” God’s words:
Quote:
Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14
Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
NOTHING in Ephesians 1:4-8 tells us THE BASIS for God “choosing” us (the elect). It is clear, however, that God has “chosen us in Him - before the foundation of the world” to beholy and without blame before him in love:– are ALL Christians “holy and without blame before him in love”? Christians can believe in God “choosing”, and in "calling", "election", "predestination", "justification", and "eternal salvation", "preservation" (NOT "perseverance") without being a Calvinist. We also can believe in "whosoever will" without being an Armenian! It's NOT an "either/or" proposition, no matter how hard some (in either "camp") try to force us into one or the other.


Calvinism Fails to understand “The WORK of God” since Christ has come:
Quote:
John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
The “WORK” of God (in this age) is to convince people (through His word) to “BELIEVE” the Gospel. The purpose of the Gospel is to bring people to the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. IF God “gives” us our “BELIEF”, WHY does He have to WORK at it? If our “BELIEF” is a “gift” from God - where then is there any “WORK” on God’s part? According to the Scriptures, God is now working at getting people tobelieve on him whom he hath sent. [Acts 13:41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.] If our BELIEF is a “gift” from God, there would be NO “WORK” involved at all (on God’s part). Why would God try to “convince” someone of the very same thing (belief) that He is going to “give” them anyway? What would be the point?


Calvinism Fails to accept the clear Scriptural ORDER of God’s SALVATION:
Quote:
In whom ye also trusted, AFTER that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also AFTER that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,” [Ephesians 1:13]
Please notice the “Chronological Order” that leads up to our Salvation: We TRUSTED, AFTER we HEARD the word of TRUTH (The Gospel). We were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise”, AFTER WE BELIEVEDNOTBEFORE”! [Ephesians 1:13]:


Calvinism Fails to discern the DISTINCTION between WORKS and BELIEF:
Quote:
Luke 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; *
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt
believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. *
10 For with the heart man
believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever
believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believedGod, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Romans 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Romans 4:5
But to him that WORKETH NOT,<> BUT BELIEVETH on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
How much clearer can the Scriptures be? According to the Holy Scriptures - IF a man WORKS for something he earns his “reward” [Romans 4:4], BUT IF a man “BELIEVETH on him that justifieth the ungodly” - his “BELIEF” is NOT counted as a “WORK”! [Romans 4:5] According to the Holy Scriptures: BELIEVING is NOT counted (or considered) as a WORK!

Calvinism ADDS to the Holy words of God; Calvinism SUBTRACTS from the Holy words of God; Calvinism TWISTS & WRESTS the Holy words of God and takes them out of context in order to “prove” Calvinistic doctrine; and Calvinism PERVERTS the Holy words of God and makes them say (“MEAN”) something other than what they “SAY”! Please check my Thread (and the accompanying Posts): “CALVINISM: Sound Doctrine?” for further “proof” of what I have said.

Question: WHO is “ordained”? Answer: THOSE {the elect} whom God “foreknew”. Question: WHO did God “foreknow”? Answer: THOSE whom God did “predestinate”. Question: WHO did God “predestinate”? Answer: THOSE whom He “called”. Question: WHO did God “call”? Answer: THOSE whom He “justified”. Question: WHO did God “JUSTIFY”? Answer: THOSE who received “faith”. Question: WHO received “faith”? Answer: THOSE who “BELIEVEDON THE Lord Jesus Christ! {Now – Lets’ REVERSE THE ORDER!}

Question: WHO has received “faith”? Answer: THOSE who have “BELIEVEDON THE Lord Jesus Christ. Question: WHO did God “JUSTIFY”? Answer: THOSE who received “faith”. Question: WHO did God “call”? Answer: THOSE whom He “justified”. Question: WHO did God “predestinate”? Answer: THOSE whom He “called”. Question: WHO did God “foreknow”? Answer: THOSE whom God did “predestinate”. Question: WHO is “ordained”? Answer: THOSE {the elect} whom God “foreknew”.

Or to put it another way: THOSE who have “BELIEVEDON THE Lord Jesus Christ – have received “faith” (Christ’s faith); and THOSE who have received “faith” – He has “justified”; and THOSE whom He has “justified” – He has “called”; and THOSE whom God has “called” - He did “predestinate”; and THOSE whom He did “predestinate” – He “foreknew”; and THOSE whom He “foreknew” – He did “ordain” to eternal life! [Acts 13:48]

BELIEF (BELIEVING) is the “KEY” to RECEIVING God’s GRACE - It always has been (in every age and under every “Covenant”) the one essential or fundamental condition that God has required, since it is impossible for us to please Him in the flesh (i.e. by our works alone)!
Quote:
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
In this age, and under “The New Testament”, Salvation is quite simple; and woe be to the man (or men) who seek to “complicate” it! The “simplicity that is in Christ” is simply:

Quote:
1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.


John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God
.