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Old 05-27-2009, 04:05 PM
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greenbear greenbear is offline
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 492

Originally Posted by Jassy View Post

It is a pleasure to have you for a sister in our Lord! I have been uplifted, encouraged, enlightened, and edified by many of your posts.

I don't want to suffer either, but we can't place ourselves in a little cocoon and say that we are MORE BLESSED and won't have to suffer. We are currently experiencing protection... but it looks like that is quickly changing and I have prepared myself to face possible persecution for my faith. We need to pray to remain strong in the Lord, no matter what happens. I've seen so many Christians that brush-off or easily dismiss persecution of Christians in other parts of the world, assuming that it doesn't apply to them and that they are simply immune, by some unwritten "spiritual protection."

We are promised BLESSINGS if we obey. But do Christians really understand that those blessings are not MATERIAL ones? They are SPIRITUAL. Paul even said to count it all JOY when you suffer things for the Lord's name sake! That's considered a BLESSING!!!!!

Why does the Bible tell us that we need to put on armor, if there's not going to be a battle and persecution? We haven't YET had to suffer persecution.

Why didn't the Lord take out the apostles in a rapture before they had to suffer?

Why doesn't the Lord take out the people worldwide who are suffering cruel brutality daily for their faithful BELIEF in the Lord?

It isn't promised, until it gets REALLY BAD and there are almost no true Christians left! (A remnant) The others will deny our Lord when it comes to a crucial test (remember Peter who denied Jesus 3 times!).

We truly need to be PREPARED!!

It is also a pleasure to have you as a sister in the Lord. He uses you to encourage a lot but I believe you also can exhort with great conviction.
It's kind of gratifying to read someone who's view of the world seems so close to my own. I almost think you might even believe, or at least not discard out of hand, some of the "wierder stuff" I believe . Satan certainly is the god of this present world.

I think you are absolutely right about needing to prepare. And that the blessings He promises are primarily spiritual, not physical. When we're living by the Spirit we can appreciate how far greater and more desirable are His spiritual blessings than physical ones.

Jassy, you said: "Why does the Bible tell us that we need to put on armor, if there's not going to be a battle and persecution? We haven't YET had to suffer persecution."
Just like God's promised blessings, the armor of God is also spiritual. It protects us from spiritual attack, not physical. It protects us against every spiritual attack of the enemy if we use it properly and consistently. We don't use the armor against people and governments who persecute us for our faith. I believe the preparation we need to engage in to prepare for the coming persecution is hiding His word in our hearts so that we have his Word even when it's taken away from us..

2 Cor
10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

You are so right; The Lord will deliver us from the wrath to come.
He will come for us before the Day of the Lord, the day of His wrath. We will likely suffer persecution but we will not suffer wrath, neither God's nor Satan's.

Rev 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Jassy, you said:"It isn't promised, until it gets REALLY BAD and there are almost no true Christians left! (A remnant) The others will deny our Lord when it comes to a crucial test (remember Peter who denied Jesus 3 times!)."
It is possible, I believe, for a christian to deny the Lord by many different motivations. Fear, torture, shame, the love of money, etc. In this age of Grace we do not have to endure until the end to be saved. I came out of the legalism of the SDA church (didn't grow up in it, just a couple of years as a brand new christian or "pre-christian") and it took me a decade to get every last trace of it's leaven- legalistic, Israel/church identity confusion out of my thinking. every time I thought I had killed it for good, it would pop it's ugly head up right in the middle of another discussion or thought. All there is for the church is grace. No requirement to be strong under persecution or torture, no imperative not to deny Him, no nothing- nothing but salvation by faith alone. We are free from ALL!!!!!!!

8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Nothing can take us out of the Body of Christ. Not even ourselves. Nothing present or to come. Nothing.

Back to "wrath". Israel will suffer wrath, though. I don't know why so many Christians want to take on Israel's blessings and their curses.

12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The remnant is Israel. Any time a remnant is spoken of, I believe it is always referring to Israel, not the church. I do think, however, that when Jesus raptures His church before the tribulation, those who are alive at His coming, those translated, will probably be less in number than we think-just IMHO.

My belief is that persecution and suffering will cause true "revival" in the church in America. The Lord has blessed me so much the last 2 weeks as I try to cease walking in my own power and lean upon Him, instead. His children are strengthened when all other avenues of help are closed and we are forced to rely solely on Him. In much the same way, Israel will be blessed with the triumphant return of their Messiah only when no man on earth is able to help them.

12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

In His Love,

Last edited by greenbear; 05-27-2009 at 04:30 PM.