[Manny Rodriguez]

Originally Posted by bibleprotector

The KJB is in English. It is perfect.

What language is "never, never.”?

Does it match the KJB?

You obviously totally missed the point and didn't read carefully. What this Bible translator was explaining is "never, never" is the "expression" being conveyed in all three translations: Greek - "ma genomia", English - "God forbid", and Spanish - "in ninguna manera". This is an idiomatic expression. An idiomatic expression must be translated as an idiomatic expression in the receptor language otherwise it will be an awkward rendering and not make any sense. The KJV translators translated a Greek idiom (ma genomia) into an English idiom (God forbid) which is the strongest way in English to convey the idiomatic expression of "never, never". That was the point that in your zeal you totally missed.

And yes the KJV is perfect. And so if another translation is to render this expression perfectly they must do the same thing the KJV translators did when dealing with this idiomatic expression. They must translate the idiom using the strongest expression possible in the receptor language that conveys the idiomatic expression of the source language.

True, but what language is the perfect Word of God in?

What cultural foundation is best for national evangelisation? What nations of the world at this point have been the most Christianised? What language is their doctrines presented in?

A Missionary's job is not to promote their "culteral foundation" or teach English. His job is to preach the Gospel and teach the word of God.

God can make it so, and it is not just one person doing the teaching. The Great Commission said for all believers to teach nations.

God can do anything He wants to do. But God also allows man to exercise his freewill. And if a person who is proud of his culture, race, and language refuses to be Americanized and Anglicized, the only way you are going to reach them is through their language and in their culture (in so far as that culture is not sinful or paganistic). That is how Paul operated (read 1 Cor. 9:19-23) and every other God-called Missionary that ever ministered to a foreign people.

Has there ever been a 100% exact or perfect Bible besides the KJB? Name any good Bible and the KJB is better. Even if you had one of Paul's letters, or a whole collection of Hebrew scrolls, the KJB would be better because it has all the Canon. (This is besides the fact that the KJB is accessible to the widest amount of people, etc.)

Well then this becomes a game of semantics then because you are defining "better" as "most complete". I am discussing the accuracy of words not canon. That is the issue. We're talking about TRANSLATION.

I believe that any people can have a Bible just as accurate and good as the KJB if that translation has the same basis (the Received Texts) as the KJV and every word in that translation is not in conflict with the words in the KJV. Newsflash - Jesus was not an Englishman.

But the Gospel = the Word. Look at 1 Peter 1:23, 25. It calls it incorruptible.

No, the Gospel is not the Word. The Gospel is defined in 1 Cor. 15:1-4:

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Now the Word of God has come forth in many languages historically. But since the Word of God has never been manifested incorrupt in one book as far as a perfect text and translation, the full meaning of the passage must be the KJB for all the world before the end. That's not to say other Bibles were wrong. And many have been saved without the KJB. But in the future, for the best results with the full truth, the very best is the KJB for all. This is where we should aim for now.

You are basing your position upon an assumption. You are assuming that between 100-1611AD there was never a complete canon of the perfect word of God in any language. But even if the Bibles that the Waldenses, Albigenses, Bogomils, Paulicians, and other Christians of old used were not as complete as the KJV, that does not prove that the KJV is the END of God's promise to preserve His words. God gave us the KJV and we can now use the KJV as the standard to produce His pure words into other language.

And there are a number of verses which relate to even getting the Jews to learn English, namely, Isaiah 28:11 and Zephaniah 3:9.

That is ridiculous to use these verses as some sort of argument against translating God's words into other languages. Isa. 28:11 is not a reference to anybody learning English. It is a reference to the Apostolic sign gift of "speaking in tongues" according to Paul the Apostle in 1 Cor. 14:21-22. And Zeph. 3:9 is a Millineal context that has no bearing upon Missionary work or the work of Bible translating today.

While these William Carey folk and supporters are not "against" the KJB, they are not fully for it if they undermine its position of dominance (by a policy or assumption that it is not for every man), or think that they stand firm when they take "consideration of the Greek and Hebrew", which is to attempt to undermine the KJB itself. Clearly, there is no perfect text in Greek or Hebrew extant today. And there is no certain translation method present today. But if we take the KJB as supersuccessionary to the Hebrew and Greek, we are saying that it came from there, but is better than it for its perfection of text (criticism) and sense, that is, the KJB is the resolved form of the Scripture, unlike the (increasingly!) uncertain state of the original languages. Running back to the Hebrew and Greek other than from the basis of the KJB being received is futile. If you use the Hebrew and Greek to support the KJB, or inquire in a believing fashion, you will see that the KJB is always right. But this has been resolved time and again, that we can advance beyond concentrating on looking back at the Hebrew and Greek, and go forward into establishing the domination of the English Bible for the world, a task which finds providential favour.

You are wrong on so many accounts here. First off you are totally wrong, in fact you're sowing discord amongst the brethren, by accusing these men of undermining the KJB just because you don't agree with them on a few particulars. Considering the Greek or Hebrew in the process of Bible translating is not undermining the KJB. That is stupid! God preserved for us His words in Greek, Hebrew, English, and many other languages, and there is nothing wrong if a Bible translator wants to avail himself of all the resources God has given him in order to provide a foreign people with the Word of God.

Bibleprotecter, with all due respect for your defense of the KJB, you are totally out of touch with reality. I would love to see you go to some of the backwards tribes in New Guinea, or Indonesia, or South America, and other places in this world and see you try to teach these people English so that they can read the KJB and be saved. It'll never happen. And God is not going to twist everyone's arm to learn English for you. That is why God will call someone else to minister to them instead of you because while you would be wasting your time trying to minister in English to a non-english speaking people, souls are dying and going to hell, and the most efficient way to reach these people is in their language. Ask ANY God-called Missionary that ever lived on this planet.