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Old 04-05-2009, 09:04 PM
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BornAgainBibleBeliever514 BornAgainBibleBeliever514 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Montreal
Posts: 100

Hi George and CKG!

My power supply blew up last week, and I've been totally busy this entire weekend, my church had a three-day revival, six sessions, which just wrapped up ( but not the revival itself, AMEN ! ). So I haven't been on the forum much this weekend.

First, Thanks for continuing on with my questions. George, apparently, your computer was working fine and either it or you is overclocked to put out such a long response
Frankly, I need some time to digest it before I can respond to it.
But gracefully, CKG's was shorter, and I can respond, not to imply George isn't graceful, but I'll have to muster up some crochety to talk to the old curmudgeon.

CKG, your point about the prince that shall come is indeed pointing to the future, but the chief priests accepting the Caesar as their king in John 19:15 happened hundreds of hears after the book of Daniel, so it doesn't really contradict, the time line is still intact.

John 19:15 could be the record of the covenant taking place.
Might I add, on the topic of time lines, When the 70 weeks started rolling, it transitioned from the 7 weeks for the rebuilding of the city into the threescore and two weeks until the Messiah should be cut off, without so much as a pause. Why shouldn't the 69th roll into the 70th without a pause?
After the resurrection and the ascension, the gospel being preached was the kingdom of heaven to the Jews.
The Body of Christ started with the resurrection, but only included Jews being added through apostolic signs and wonders, until the nation of Israel rejected God the Holy Spirit, and then the gospel changed to include the gentiles by grace through faith alone: the kingdom of God.
<<< Insert a big PRAISE GOD! here >>>

Seems logical to me that that's a big change, and the 70 weeks got paused there.
Remember that the Lord Jesus Christ is seated at the right hand of God's throne?

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

And we always think He's been that way ever since the ascension, however:

Isa 3:13 The LORD standeth up to plead, and standeth to judge the people.

Since the gospel was still to the nation of Israel alone in those first 220 days of Acts (as this theory we're discussing suggests), then this makes sense with Stephen's stoning, where he:

Act 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Jesus stood up to plead and judge the nation of Israel at that moment, because their offer of the kingdom of heaven was still valid, God was still dealing with the Jews. This is evidenced by the working of apostolic signs and wonders, the early Acts doctrines of Baptismal regeneration, and the fact that right in Acts chapter 1, they needed to appoint a replacement, twelfth apostle, in order that the nation of Israel could legally be judged.

But right after Israel's "last chance" at Stephen's sermon to the Jews, (NOT in a replacement theology way, just their last chance to receive their Messiah by faith), then things really started changing. An Etheopian gets saved; Saul, of all people, gets converted (in a remarkable type of how the unbelieving Jew will be converted at the second coming); the apostolic signs and wonders begin to cease; and Peter receives the vision concerning unclean things.
The signs and wonders ceased in Jerusalem right then, and only happened a little bit since to convince unbelieving Jews that the gospel was now open to the gentiles.

Anyways, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, or debate, I just want to discuss the theory that Greg Estep put forward in those sermons I linked to.
George, I know you are concerned about Estep as well, and so am I.
But the purpose of this thread is to discuss the theory, not Estep.
I'll answer your other post soon, and in no way am I mad at anyone over this, even if they don't agree. In fact, I want a discussion, so that together we can test the theory. I'm not dead set on it, if I'm wrong, I can change.
My interest is in the Truth, and I thank the Lord that you guys are here on this forum to give me someone to talk to about it.
I've asked the Lord about this theory, or revelation, whichever it turns out to be, that He show me the truth of it. My eyes and heart are towards Jesus, with a sincere desire to know what He wants me to know.

George, I appreciate your concerns, and I will answer you, but trust that my final authority isn't Estep or any other man, but rather its God's Holy Word.

Preliminary comment, George: Show me one human teacher/preacher that actually has 100% truth that I can learn from without having to chew the meat and spit out the bones...
If something is a heresy, I will spit it out and won't condone it. For example, I don't believe in the gap theory, but am I then to throw out everything God gave brother Ruckman because he also teaches the gap? That would be a waste!

Once more, this thread really really isn't about Estep, but about the theory he advanced in that particular sermon. I only reference him, because I haven't heard anyone else say it before. If he has other doctrines, or teachings done before or after this that are incorrect (that I never heard yet), then I will reject them. But if the 70 weeks time line theory is correct, I'm not going to throw it out.
Billy Graham used to preach some sound stuff (wayyyy back), but then he became a Romanist. Does that invalidate something truthful he said that a long time ago?

Thanks once again, brethren, for taking the time to talk with me about this theory (Daniel's 70 week time line). I'm not terribly interested in discussing Estep, but by proxy I guess we must, but I'd rather focus on the Bible and what it says about this prophecy.
I appreciate any and all concern anyone has for me, and I thank you for your efforts to talk about it. I'm sure that as long as we all seek Christ on every page, the body will be strengthened and edified.