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Old 06-02-2009, 09:46 AM
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George George is offline
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Location: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
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Default Re: "the Place of a Woman"

Originally Posted by katie ha-lakh View Post
"I suppose, I should make my thoughts clear as Greenbear has made hers. Of course, I go to the Word before I go to anyone else (and after). When I said "consensus" I suppose I meant your interpretations of the Word...backed up with verses of course.

I understand that God loves both men and women and that we have different roles. I believe that women are not to be preaching. I do, however get confused (by the way, His Word is never confusing, but our own thoughts confuse us ) as to what my role is/should be.

I try to take the Bible very literally. When I read that women were to keep silence in the church, I became fearful that I would have to sign my way out after the services .

Then I thought, well, now that Christ has died, the temple is inside us and we can't be silent at all times so Paul must have simply meant that we couldn't preach or have authority over a man in the building where we gather to worship and we can still chat etc. afterward.

THEN I thought about the verse which speaks of asking our husbands at home if we were to learn something. I thought, this seems pretty clear that I should not talk to anyone inside the building, even about the service.

I dunno, talking about this again gets me all confused. AND on top of that, this summer, my employers might ask me to introduce pastors at the pulpit! I'm not comfortable with that. Isn't this what Paul is talking about? Please pray about this summer.

Aloha sister Katie ha-lakh,

I have commented on this subject before, but I will try to address your specific concerns with this Post.

Just for clarification:
The word “church” in the Bible describes an assembly of people – not a building.

1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

There are 3 basic “interpretations” for these verses:

1. Women are not to speak at all in a church (an assembly – not a building).

2. Women are not to preach or teach God’s word in a church (i.e. speak to the assembly of Christians in regards to preaching or teaching God’s word).

3. Women are not to speak in tongues at all in a church (an assembly – not a building).

In regards to #3 - the entire Book of 1 Corinthians mentions the tongue (or tongues) twenty two (22) times. Fifteen (15) of those times occurs in Chapter 14 (called the “tongues” Chapter of the Bible). So we can be sure of one thing – as far as “speaking” in tongues is concerned: “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak”.

If you are familiar with the Charismatic (Pentecostal) churches, the vast majority of “tongues speaking” (in the churches) is done by women – in direct opposition to God’s commandment.

In regards to #2 – The Apostle Paul clearly stated:

1 Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

These verses are not “hard” to understand. They may be “hard” for Western women “to take”, but they are NOT “hard” to understand.

As far as the Scriptures are concerned – the commandment is clear: “I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” In a Bible believing church (an assembly – not a building) – a woman is not to “teach”, or “usurp authority over” a man (or men).

I believe that a woman can do almost everything a man can do in a church (an assembly – not a building) she can pray, she can sing, she can praise God, she can say amen, etc. (because none of those things “usurp authority over the man”). What a woman is not allowed to do is to preach, or to teach - because both of those practices involve exercising “authority” over men.

In regards to #1 - It may be that that women are not to speak AT ALL in a church (I could be wrong in my understanding here). There have been churches in the past that have made this their practice. I believe the Amish (and possibly the Mennonites & Quakers) have followed this practice - which only goes to prove that observing strict “RULES” and “ORDINANCES” does not insure sound doctrine!

My understanding on this issue is that God does not treat saved women any different than saved men; except in this one area – in regards to women exercising authority over men (it’s out of God’s “order” of things – 1 Corinthians 11:3 & Ephesians 5:23).

Whenever I get to thinking that I am better than a woman (because I am a man) I think of those women who worshipped the Lord Jesus Christ and, with the exception of the Apostle John, had the courage to attend His crucifixion.

And in addition I am reminded of Fanny Crosby (blind from childhood), who is reported to have written approximately 6,000 Poems dedicated to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. If you have ever sung a Hymn with the words written by Fanny Crosby you will know what I mean. If there is anything written that comes close to Scripture, the words that this woman wrote in honoring her Lord, come as close to Scripture as anything that I have ever read.

Now don’t you know, that when it comes to being “seated” at a “table” at the “Marriage Supper of The Lamb”, that that this woman is going to be a whole lot “closer” to the “Head table” (she may even be seated there), than I will be?

A woman can love God as much or more than a man; a woman can choose to obey God as much or more than a man; a woman can have as much or more “fruit” in her life as a man; a woman can perform as much or more “good works” as a man; a woman can pray, sing, and give praise to God as much or more than a man; - what a Christian woman is NOT “allowed” to do is – “exercise authority over the man”.

You would be surprised at how much “peace” there has been in our home (for 48 years), because my wife has “chosen” to obey this Scripture (99% of the time ).

Proverbs 31:10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.
11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.
12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.
13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands.
14 She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar.
15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens.
16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard.
17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms.
18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night.
19 She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff.
20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy.
21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet.
22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple.
23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land.
24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant.
25 Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come.
26 She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness.
27 She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness.
28 Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her.
29 Many daughters have done virtuously, but thou excellest them all.
30 Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised.
31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.

God has blessed me with a wife, who is as close to the Scriptural definition of the “perfect wife” [Proverbs 31:10-31], that I have seen in 69 years of life. She has been a true “helpmeet” and a faithful “companion” to me throughout our life together. And the manner in which she has lived her life has been a true Biblical “testimony” of what a (Christian) woman; and a (Christian) mother; and a (Christian) wife should be - to her family; our friends; our neighbors, and to the world.

Proverbs 18:22 Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD.

I did! And I have!