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Old 07-18-2009, 10:25 AM
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Forrest Forrest is offline
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 597

Originally Posted by tonybones2112 View Post
Sister, I have no intention of picking apart anything you have to say. We had a woman in the forum a number of months ago and several men who were teaching Law and some weird Jewish fables revolving around the good ol' days of early Genesis period, they were stripped to the bones You make many valid points and comments that are worthy of responding to.

Amanda, when I was studying in college we had a course and a degree called "abnormal" psychology. That's no longer available to me, the time has long past for me to take any degree in it, I was a few hours short of a bachelors in this field. What was then "abnormal" is normal today. I'd like to approach "hatred of sinners" from that angle first.

When a man preaches that "God hates sinners" it's something known as "projecting", it's a mental defense mechanism against self-hatred. When a man preaches "God hates sinners" it's because he is trying to take the spotlight off himself, because he has a few pretty hideous sins in his life he is not telling us about. A man who preaches that "God hates sinners' is not a man I'd leave alone with a child or group of children. Sister, I'm not going to name names and produce court documents in my possession, if you feel God leads me to speak the truth, take my word for it.

Jack Hyles was one of the most vicious and fervent preachers against adultery I have ever known, Hyles was committing adultery with his personal secretary for over 20 years he preached against it.

Any man who preaches that "God hates sinners" is secretly preaching against himself. I don't want you in the same room, alone, with that man. I attended a church where the pastor withdrew support for the street ministry because he didn't want that street trash in the church.
Now, as individual Christians we can believe what we want. Sister, regarding the traditional Baptist doctrine you were born and raised into, I am your worst nightmare. Let each of us be fully persuaded in our own minds. But a man in the position of a pastor or evangelist, educator, author, who has the power to influence or sway large numbers of people teaches that "God hates sinners" that man is a murderer. He is condemning the lost to hell, because such a man does not want to witness, nor will witness to lost people, the lost is the reason you and I exist in Christ.

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

If God hates sinners then let's just translate our own version of the Scriptures and when we do, we will say there is "no manuscript evidence" for the verse I just quoted you.

The second thing I want to address is Scripture wresting. Can You show me Scripture that "God hates sinners"? Kewl. I can show you Scripture that proves the existence of Santa Clause:

Zec 2:6 Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the LORD: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the LORD.

Sure, Santa is God ain't He? He knows when you been sleeping, he knows when you're awake, he knows when you been bad or good so be good for goddness sake? There you have it, I mean it's right in the Bible. The Dane Sinte Klaus, St. Nicolas, in the rolls of the Catholic Church as the patron saint of beer drinkers is God.

I'm sure God has hated select individuals. He hated Esau, and I'm sure his opinion of the future Anti-Christ, Judas Iscariot, is not a good one. The reason the tone of this response to you is a bit strong is because the teaching "God hates sinners" is a Satanic heresy, cultic, and like Calvinism, one of the greatest tools against personal evangelism out there.

Third and final thing I want to emphasize is why did God die for people he hated?

Matt. 9:10 And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.
11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

You know, prostitutes, murderers, crackheads, crank-cookers, child molesters, rapists, just dripped off Jesus Christ everywhere he went. You ever see the tearful writhing and hear the pitiful cries of the most hardened sinner as they came to Christ, and wonder why? Because Jesus Christ has mercy on them, Christians don't. People on the street hear me speak to my fellows about this or that, and they say, you speak as if there is something wrong with Christianity. I reply yes, only one thing wrong with Christianity, Christians.

We have "Calvinists" who are actually too shy, cowardly, and are ashamed of the gospel of Christ to witness for Him. If God hates sinners I guess Arthur Blessit walked 36000 miles for nothing.

Sister, when you've read this message, blot everything out around you and read it again. They pray about it.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

When we translate the God Hates Sinners Version, above is another verse we'll have to say there is "no manuscript evidence for".

Grace and peace sister Amanda

You wrote: Any man who preaches that "God hates sinners" is secretly preaching against himself. I don't want you in the same room, alone, with that man.
Personally, I've never heard, or preached a message that: "God Hates Sinners!" I am not suggesting it's never been done...but I've never heard it. Certainly in Christ we all know that we are reconciled, justified, sanctified, redeemed, and forgiven. Surely we, who are now saved and in Christ, know this very basic Biblical reality. There is absolutely no condemnation to the born-again believer--ever. We are the righteousness of God in Christ. There are plenty of scriptures that teach us that.
2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Yes, God is love. No doubt. Yes, God is longsuffering. No doubt. Yes, God is merciful, kind, giving, and full of grace. But how do you treat this scripture, brother?

You wrote: The second thing I want to address is Scripture wresting. Can You show me Scripture that "God hates sinners"?
Psalms 5:4-5 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Psalms 11:5-7 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup. For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.
Would those scriptures above mean "all" workers of iniquity? Do those scriptures above actually say that God hates all the workers of iniquity, the wicked, and him that worketh violence? A simple yes or no will suffice. And if you think no, please explain to us why you believe that and to whom those verses above actually refer.

Last edited by Forrest; 07-18-2009 at 10:42 AM.