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Old 06-02-2009, 05:07 AM
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Greektim Greektim is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Beaufort, NC
Posts: 123

Originally Posted by tonybones2112 View Post
Which church brother?

The first "church" was the nation of Israel, the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob unto which the promises by God were made:

Ac 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

The next church is the Messianic/Apostolic church under the 12 Apostles with Peter as the prime apostle to:

Matt. 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Ac 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

The church no man was told ofis the church you and I are in today. This church has as it's prime apostle Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, the co-equal Body made up for the first time in human history of Gentiles and Jews together equally, which was the Mystery not made known from eternity past until reveal to Paul and through Paul:

Eph. 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you–ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

This is Paul's church, the Body of Christ, and grafted into the Messianic/Apostolic Church under Peter in Acts 15 when Peter, James, and John surrendered the 5 Commissions given to them to Paul's Commission of Acts 9, as related in Galatians 2:

Ga 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

The church in the wilderness is the nation of Israel.

The Messianic/Apostolic church is the "kingdom of priests" (Ex. 19)that John the Baptist consecrated Christ as High Priest for(water baptismal washing of Lev. 8) and then He was sanctified by God the Father after this baptism(washing) by the pouring on Christ of the "oil"(the Holy Spirit, which is what the oil typified). After the resurrection Christ gave 5 commissions to the 12 to continue to build this "kingdom of priests" by their preaching of the gospel of the kingdom of Christ as their King and High Priests. This is the church that would have, and will in the future, go through the Tribulation, as Peter in Acts 2 preached Joel 2, the coming Great tribulation, the Wrath To Come. National Israel was set aside at the final rejection of Christ with the murder of Stephen in Acts 7.

Paul is called to preach Christ to Gentiles, kings, and Jews the gospel of the grace of God through Christ's sacrifice apart from the works of the Law. This church is a Body made of Gentiles and Jews now equal as the middle wall of partition, as with the wall separating the Court Of The Gentiles from the rest of the Temple, has been broken down and the two are now One In Christ. Paul's Commission to us is to bear Christ's Name, the Name above every name, to Gentiles, kings, and Jews as ambassadors for Christ and ministers of the reconciliation that God was in Christ, who died for the sins of the world and was buried and resurrected after three days, reconciling the world unto Himself through Christ and Paul's gospel of Grace.

At the "Rapture" this Body will be taken out of the world where the 7000 "who have not bowed the knee to Baal" will form the core of the 144,000 missionaries of Revelation. It is unto these that Hebrews-Revelation is committed to as doctrine for them, as is Genesis-Acts 28, this is the continuation of the Messianic-Apostolic church that will precede the return of Moses and Elijah as prophets and preachers in the Tribulation.

I believe this goes a ways in answering a question you posed to me in the Water Baptism thread about the different churches Tim. Feel free to inquire further.

Grace and peace brother

Ok...let me back up...and don't forget I am a Dispensationalist (normative/classical/traditional; I call myself a strict/refined Dispensationalist b/c of my views of the Kingdom of God, the New Covenant, & Spirit indwelling which are a bit different than the Ryrie, Walvoord, Pentecost Dispensationalism. But that is for another time...):

You see 2 churches, or possibly 3 (OT Israe? & a Messianic Petrine or are they the same???). No doubt the KJV speaks of a "church" in the OT from Acts 7. I only see 1 Church beginning at Pentecost. I see an ekklesia (congregation or assembly) in Acts 7 just as you see ekklesia (assembly) in Acts 19. But...potato potahtoe...

My first question is, would you say that the Church (Pauline in your case) is a mystery (mystery being that which was not revealed in the past, etc...)? If yes, could you provide the Scripture that directly says the church is a mystery? If not, well then you get the idea...

Last thing, Jesus uses a future tense in Matt. 16:18 "I will build My Church." Does that not affect the way you interpret it? Are we not part of Jesus' Church? How can you tell which ekklesia He is referring to?

I know I was accused of asking to many questions, but I hope that doesn't bother you Tony. I want to get a feel for things before I go right off and stick my foot in my mouth. I have big feet so that would not be a good thing.