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Old 06-14-2009, 05:06 PM
Winman Winman is offline
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 464

Kevin said:

I don't necessarily have time to pick through Winman's post right now, all though I do say that I do agree with a couple of things that he said. The only thing I have to ask right now is why did John the Baptist and Jesus keep saying the kingdom of heaven is at hand and then start telling people how to get in to the kingdom of heaven if it there was no possible way for it to show up for another 2000+ years?
Kevin, the Pharisees asked this very question of Jesus.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. 22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. 25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

First Jesus told them the kingdom comes not with observation, it is not something you can see with your eyes. Then he tells them the kingdom of God is within you. I understand this as receiving the gospel, believeing on Jesus. This may be describing the church age. Then the Lord describes his second coming. But first he must suffer and be rejected of this generation.

So Jesus did tell them the answer to their question, although they probably did not understand it.

And this is a point to be made. It does not matter what the Jews thought at the time, that has no bearing on reality. They expected the Messiah to come as a King and restore the kingdom. That is the very question these Pharisees asked of Jesus. And the apostles asked the same in Acts 1. The Jews did not know about the church age, they did not understand the Gentiles would be grafted into the body. But that does not change the reality that these things must happen. So, to argue that the Jews didn't expect this thing or that is not really valid. They got it wrong on many counts.