[George]

Originally Posted by Beth

I'm wondering just how many you are calling gnat strainers today. In Christian love I ask you as well to search your heart to make sure that you are not spewing forth to your brethren.

What I am seeing from some of those you call gnat strainers is that they are doing their best to back up their statements in a respectful way. We should be able to discuss differences respectfully. disagreeing with someone is not spewing as long as we can be respectful.

Just "WHO" was I addressing when I made this charge? Were there any NAMES MENTIONED? If I didn't name names or address my remarks to any one person on the Forum - WHY are you upset?

There are "Gnat Strainers" on this Forum - and I'm sure that for some of them my remarks "hit home", which they were meant to. But WHY would you take offense?

Your concept of Biblical Christianity and what a Christian man should or should not say has been influenced by our "Politically Correct" Culture. I, for one, refuse to "buy into" this "sissified" and "effeminate" concept of what a man (a Christian man) should be or what he should say.

WHY did you take offense? I can assure you here and now that those remarks were not meant for you, or directed towards you! WHY are you so "sensitive".

Christian MEN are not supposed to meet the standards set up for them by women (saved or lost) - We are supposed to live according to God's INSTRUCTIONS & STANDARDS! I am more concerned with WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE to the Lord, than "what is acceptable" to man. It's not just:

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

It's also:

Ephesians 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth)
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

Do understand the "implications" of the above?

2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Are you aware that we are living in that "Time"? This "time" that we live in could easily be called "The Age Of Apostasy" - There is only one other time in the history of the "church of God", where there has been such a falling away from the truth, and that was immediately after the Apostolic Age - when there were at least 80 or more cults and sects vying for the attention of Christians; and when there was a proliferation of "false" books & "false" bibles.

Timothy (and all men who are called of God - myself included) was CHARGED before God to not only be "gentle" with all men, but he was to "reprove" and "rebuke" them! And this is where Biblical DISCERNMENT comes (Knowing WHO to "reprove" or "rebuke" - Ephesians 5:11); and Biblical UNDERSTANDING (Knowing WHY they should (actually "must") be rebuked - Ephesians 5:13); and having the WISDOM to know WHO TO "reprove" or "rebuke" and WHEN to deliver the reproof or rebuke. - 1Timothy 4:1-4)

And what about:

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

If I don't "reprove" someone when they have it coming, I actually am failing to fulfil the duties and responsibilities that God has given me in order that I might be: perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

You see it's not just about "gentleness" & "meekness"; or about "doctrine" & "instruction" - there are times when we must "warn", "admonish", "reprove", and yes, even rebuke! After 50 years of dealing with "all kinds" of "Christians" I usually can "spot" a "SOPHIST" and "DESTRUCTIVE CRITIC" fairly quickly. and since I have learned over the years that there is nothing "Profitable" to be gained by trying to reason with them, I either "reprove" them or "rebuke" them - depending on the circumstances and then I "avoid them" (like the plague). Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. (The idea being that it is better to deal with them "quickly", rather than have happen - what has occurred)

How about this:

1 Timothy 5:1 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;

Did T4T treat me in his Post #9 (an elder in a New Testament church) in a "scriptural" manner? I trow not! Then WHY are you defending him and criticizing me? Hmmm? We are told to "judge righteous judgment" - Is your judgment "righteous"?

And what about this verse:

1 Timothy 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

In the context this is referring to "elders", but if it's "good enough" to "rebuke" an elder "before all", it's "good enough" for all Christians. (And there are plenty of "witnesses" to this man's conduct.)

And then there is: {A "bishop" = An "elder" or a "pastor"}

Titus 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience isdefiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Can you not see that, although it is real simple to get saved - living the Christian life according to the Scriptures is a whole lot more than "Milk & Honey" or "Chocolates & Roses". Living according to the Scriptures "costs", because it is contrary to everything that we embraced and absorbed before we were saved. We live in a Humanistic culture and this culture is so "perverse" that it is very difficult to overcome it - unless we live by faith according to the Scriptures, and it will still "cost".

Your "concept" about my behavior is not Biblical and if you would take the time to see how God's men have conducted themselves down through the ages (within the Bible & during the church age), you would quickly find that their conduct was nothing like the "girly men" in modern day "Christianity". Our God is not some "sissified" "effeminate" God and neither are His MEN. Don't make the mistake of judging me by today's Humanistic, Psychological, and Politically Correct standards.

And lastly what about:

Titus 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

I may at times be mistaken in my "discernment", "understanding" and "wisdom" when it comes to my judgment in these matters - and if I am, God will see to it that I am "chastened"; but I am not going to shrink from my duty to "warn"; "admonish"; and "REPROVE"; and, even when the occasion requires, "REBUKE" a "proud", "vain", and "offensive" person who hurls insults at a Christian without regard for What God's word has to say or even what common courtesy would require.

If you will notice: I have not treated you in the same way that I treated him, because I do not perceive that you are anything "like" him.

Respectfully submmited,