View Single Post
  #25  
Old 04-21-2009, 03:43 AM
tonybones2112's Avatar
tonybones2112 tonybones2112 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 754
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by George View Post
Aloha brother Tony,

I know that this is off topic but . . . I too wonder at some of the same things (and others) that "baffle" you. However, in going through the Bible (this time around) I believe I "get" what "...baptism for the dead" is. Please follow the Scriptures along with me.

We all know (or should know) that 1 Corinthians Chapter 15:1-4 defines "the Gospel (Paul's "Gospel"). However the whole Chapter could be called "The Resurrection Chapter" of the Holy Bible.

Read through Chapter 15 of 1 Corinthians and take note of the phrase: "the dead" [1Corinthians 15:12-13,15-16,20-21,29,32,35,42,52]. Verses 12 through 52 define "THE DEAD".

1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, IF the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

The first thing that has to be done is identify WHO "the dead" are and then WHO are the "they" that are being "baptized for the dead". [And you can be absolutely sure that the Mormons don't have a "clue" about the matter!]

I believe that when a new (born again child of God) Christian is "baptized" (in water) that that "baptism" is a DECLARATION to the world - "the dead" ARE GOING TO RISE AGAIN! "They" are saying: Even though "the dead" are dead and buried, there will come a day WHEN THEY SHALL RISE! And correspondingly (as Paul said) "IF the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" That is - WHY bother baptizing "for (on the behalf of) the dead", IF "the dead" don't rise?

In other words "Water Baptism" for the church DOES NOT place a born again child of God INTO the body of Christ (The Holy Spirit DID THAT the moment we BELIEVED!); and although it "could be" a PICTURE of the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ (and our identifying with Him); I believe that water baptism "for the dead" is a DECLARATION {by those who are alive, and who are being baptized} to the world that says: "SEE, you may "think" that all those who have died (i.e. "the dead") are dead, buried, and GONE FOREVER, but I am declaring to you: that just like I am buried in this water, and just like I have come up out of the water, so shall ALL of "the dead" also come up out of the grave someday."

"The dead" can no longer speak, but those of us who are alive can. And we can speak with "words" and we can "speak" by way of a "picture" (a physical "illustration"). When a Christian is "baptized for the dead", he (the Christian) is speaking on their behalf (since they can longer speak); he is testifying that "the dead" are NOT going to remain "dead" FOREVER. Read the verse:

1 Corinthians 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

Ask yourself WHO are "the dead"? They are either ALL of "the dead" [
"For as in Adam ALL die,"] or they are ALL of "the dead" in Christ ["even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive"].

"The dead" in Christ can no longer speak, but we can speak. And when we are baptized we are speaking (by way of an "illustration") for "the dead"; and DECLARING to the world that just like we DID NOT STAY UNDER THE WATER, neither shall "the dead" STAY DOWN - "the dead" SHALL RISE AGAIN!

George, I can only say thank you for the time and the effort you put into this, and that this is the first real complete explanation of the verse I've been given, and I am in your debt brother. You've given me even more perspective on both books of Corinthians than I had, I feel a spiritual delight in what you've given me to study. Brother, I don't preach my dispensational beliefs on water baptism, the signs of an apostle, Mark 16 or the Great Commission versus the ministry of reconciliation, we have touched upon them since I became a member of this forum. I'll answer inquiries of my beliefs. I don't want to be a nuisance. I would however like to graze over my own beliefs by saying though I am not a petrified Bullingerite I believe there are portions of both letters to the Corinthians that are transitional, as befitting books written during the Acts period. Your exposition here fits I am sure your, and it also fits into my own convictions, so thank you again and I owe you one

Grace and peace

Tony