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Old 06-27-2009, 04:02 PM
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greenbear greenbear is offline
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 492

Originally Posted by Winman View Post
Just because you don't know something, does not mean it doesn't exist. For example, have you ever received a wrapped present at Christmas? Well, until you open it, the contents are a mystery to you. Does that mean the present inside the box doesn't exist until you open it and the mystery is revealed? Of course not. But that is how some here think.

You are correct, the Jews were looking for the Christ to come and reestablish the kingdom. But that is not why Jesus came at his first coming.

Luke 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

And that is the gospel right there.

Just because the Jews did not fully understand the scriptures, does not change God's purposes.

Take the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8. He was reading the scriptures in Isaiah. He did not understand these scriptures, the meaning was a mystery to him. But Philip showed him these scriptures were about Jesus suffering and dying on the cross.

Acts 8:26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.
27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

You see, these scriptures in Isaiah were always about Christ, but the Jews did not understand them, they were a mystery. That does not change the fact that this was the gospel, the preaching of Jesus Christ.

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

There it is right there, that Jesus would come and die on the cross to save us from our sins. Just because the Jews did not understand this scripture does not mean it didn't exist or that God did not declare the gospel. If these scriptues were not about Jesus, then why does the scripture say that Philip began at that same scripture and preached unto him Jesus?

To believe that something doesn't exist until you understand it is faulty logic.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Remember, when Jesus said this not one word of the New Testament existed. Jesus told them the Old Testament testified of him. Just because some may not have understood this does not change this fact.

The mystery was not that Christ had to die on the cross and there would be two comings. That information is already revealed in the old testament whether Israel as a nation understood the prophesies or not.

The "mystery" is the gospel that Paul received directly from Jesus Christ. Jesus hinted at it with his pearl of great price parable but other than that I am not aware of anywhere it can be found before it was revealed to Paul. The gentiles who never had the law being directly indwelled by the Holy Spirit and put in His body completely apart from God's program for the Jews. Israel completely bypassed and set aside for a period of time!

Paul's gospel of grace is completely new, has nothing whatsoever to do with the law that was committed to Israel.

We are talking about the gospel of grace, not Christ crucified and His two comings.
Paul's gospel of grace could not have existed along side God's program for the nation Israel. Paul's gospel of grace to the gentiles could not have existed along side Christ's Millennial Kingdom which would have started if Israel as a nation would have accepted Him after he was resurrected. It could only ever exist after national Israel rejected her messiah. It is completely removed from God's program with Israel which is the Law.

Just because Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are called the gospels doesn't mean that Jesus coming a the God-Man, dying on the cross for the sins of the world, rising on the third day and ascending to the Father is the only gospel. We all know the gospel means good news. It just so happens that Paul's gospel is also a new dispensation. The scriptures clearly state in many places that there are different gospels, or different messages of good news. They are all incumbent upon the death and resurrection of Christ.

Last edited by greenbear; 06-27-2009 at 04:32 PM.