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Old 11-29-2008, 01:26 AM
JMWHALEN JMWHALEN is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkg View Post
Brother Luke, first let me state that I agree with you on this. Salvation comes through faith alone in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Savior.

I guess I didnt word what I meant the best, what im saying is not a way to assure yourself, Im saying if your truly saved and have given your life over to Jesus in submission than your fruit will show it (works). This is not for the assurance of yourself but for others. I believe in my heart that Jesus is Lord, and He died for my sins, I KNOW I am saved because of the blood of Jesus that was shed for me. But at the same time I am not omniscience, I do not know if someone truly believes what they say they believe, the only way I can tell this is through their fruit, when I think of my fellow brethren in this aspect I often ask myself, are they moving closer to God? Are they trying to remove sin from their life and witness and do the Lord's work in whatever way they can. You mentioned that that was directed towards the Jews, but if you were a true believer of Christ for the past 20 years of your life and your works did not show any movement towards God, well I would have a hard time believing you were a true believer.

Ive actually never listened to the shocking message or whatever it is of paul's, but I have listened to quite a few and I believe he does know have a correct view of salvation, my only problem is that he focuses so much on repentance because it is one of the bigger things lacking in the church (carnal Christians and all that stuff) and how you need to turn from sin that it overwhelms the faith aspect of it.

But I'm open to other opinions I was just trying to clarify my position.
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"Im saying if your truly saved and have given your life over to Jesus in submission than your fruit will show it (works)."

"truly saved"

Is that similar to "truly pregnant, truly dead, truly alive, truly white, truly black, truly sweet, truly bitter........?

Justification has nothing to do with you giving the LORD God anything, especially the life of a no-good, rotten, filthy sinner. The Lord Jesus Christ gave His life in your place at Calvary, and your no-good, rotten, filthy life is replaced with the resurrected life of the Lord Jesus Christ. You confuse justification with service/sanctification/"walk."

"the only way I can tell this is through their fruit."

How much "fruit?" You do not comprehend the gravity of sin. Sin is not just "wrong doing", it is "wrong being." Tell us how much "fruit" is required. And, while you are at it, if this is your(not my) "argument", tell us that you have met the requirement of "fruit." And what relevance is it, even if your "argument" is correct(and it is not), that "you can tell?"

"..are they moving closer to God? Are they trying to remove sin from their life and witness and do the Lord's work in whatever way they can."

This is sanctification, not justification.

"trying"

How much "trying"?


"but if you were a true believer of Christ for the past 20 years of your life and your works did not show any movement towards God, well I would have a hard time believing you were a true believer."


How many works would you say "qualified" that you "showed any movement towards God"? You have the wrong conception of sin. Those poor Corinthians, who are referred to as "saints." The Galatians would love this sermon.

And what distinguishes a "true" believer from a "not true" believer? Tell all of us what a "true believer" is, with specifics.


"repentance because it is one of the bigger things lacking in the church (carnal Christians and all that stuff) and how you need to turn from sin that it overwhelms the faith aspect of it. "

"turn from sin" is sanctification/service/"walk", not justification. The LORD God repented.

Sounds like a "Lordship Salvation" proponent here-a perversion of the gospel of Christ-Gal. 1)


In Christ,

John M. Whalen