[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by Tandi

I would not categorize it as an "attack" on Hebrews. This is a respected friend who has questions and wonders if Hebrews belongs with the Apocrypha in its present form. He wonders if there was an original text that has been tampered with. Revelation warns that such tampering with the Scriptures would take place, and we see it in the Alexandrian texts. Could it have happened with Hebrews? I would say, "Not if God preserved His Word and kept it free from error" which is my belief.

Therefore, rather than insult the intelligence of those who see problems in the text (and he is not the only one), let us answer their challenges respectfully...and maybe win over more converts to KJV Bible preservation.

Shalom,

Tandi

Here are some of the "problems" that my friend would like to see resolved:

Factual Problems:

7:27 Apparent contradiction between Hebrews and Torah on frequency of sin offering
9:4 Apparent misplacing of altar of incense
9:4 Apparent problem with manna in the ark
9:4 Apparent problem with Aaron's rod in the ark
9:19 Apparently differs with Torah on usage of goats.
9:19 Apparently differs with Torah on presence of water.
9:19 Apparently differs with Torah on scarlet wool.
9:19 Apparently differs with Torah on hyssop.
9:19 Apparently the book was not sprinkled in Torah.
9:21 Apparently a lot of things were anointed with oil and not blood.
10:11 Apparent contradiction with Torah on frequency of sin offering.

Theological Difficulties to be resolved (partial list)

1:14 seems to imply angel of YHWH is not Yeshua
2:10 apparently claims Messiah had to be perfected
2:16 apparently denies Yeshua is angel of YHWH
5:8 apparently implies Messiah learned obedience by suffering
9:15 apparently confuses covenant with a will
9:23 apparently teaches sacrifices (plural) needed to cleanse heaven
10:14 apparently teaches perfection of the spirit

Other problems:

The Question of non-Pauline authorship
The Question of absence from earliest canonical lists
The Apostate Status of the proto-Catholic Church that canonized the book.

Tandy, I was not the one who said anyone was "attacking" the book of Hebrews, it was you, here is a quote from your initial message:

"Some have challenged the Book of Hebrews as containing factual errors. Has this topic been dealt with here? Could you direct me to the discussion or other resources in defense of the Epistle to the Hebrews?"

There is a rule of English grammar known as the Antithecal Proposition. This is a foundation tenet for Deductive Reasoning and also a platform for what is known as Occam's Razor. You make the request for discussion or resources that you can use "in defense" of Hebrews. All things being equal, we must deduce you are saying that the sum total of these "factual error" allegations constitutes an attack. and that is the foundation I spoke from.

One thing I have noticed in your replies to me is that you read assumptions into what I say when I reply to you. Our road to friendship and fellowship will be paved on the simple stones of you just taking me at face value without any ambiguities of ulterior motives.

I'm trying to help.

A demonstration of an Antithecal Proposition is the correct interpretation of the passage below, the understanding given by the Holy Spirit:

2Ti 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

What specifically, are these "youthful lusts"? Paul does not say specifically, however he does give the antithesis, the opposite of these "lusts" as the cure, neutralization, the negation of these sinful conditions, and we can say with confidence that these "youthful lusts" are:

1. Unrighteousness-righteousness
2. Unfaithfulness-faith
3. Selfishness-charity
4. Disorder-peace
5. These conditions arise out of an impure heart, while fleeing them will ensure a purity of heart.

As I said, you mentioned you needed a defense, I deduced you were faced with an attack.

I'm not going to address the specific OT precepts related to Hebrews that you've delineated for three reasons: Others have expressed a desire to work on the questions for you, I do not wish to step on their toes. Secondly after examining your friend's objections and "problems" I can see no objections or problems, and certainly it is not within my intellectual capacity to solve problems I cannot see. Thirdly, I am a dispensationalist, and as noted in your other relies to me, dispensationalism is a dirty word with you. I can offer you no "solution" or indeed purpose for the book of Hebrews as these solutions are arrived at by right division that Paul defines in Ephesians 3("times past", "but now", "ages to come"). All Scripture is profitable for doctrine and Hebrews, like Leviticus and James, are written "for" me but not "to" me. Hebrews is Paul's letter to HEBREWS, time period is the onset of the Great Tribulation. Hebrews is rich in doctrine, unfortunately for many, Hebrews is not doctrinally applicable to the Body of Christ in the present age of Grace. There is no present "priesthood of believers", the "priesthood" is the 144,000 in Revelation. I can find nothing in Paul's teachings that I am a priest of anything. I am not a priest, I am part of the Great High Priest's Body. There are people in Hebrews who fall away and cannot be renewed unto repentence, this contradicts Paul's quite clear statement on our Eternal Security in Romans 8. It's unfortunate that my replies are distasteful due to my dispensational insistence on right division, but that's the only way I know to reply to you, or anyone.

I will reply to the three "problems" that actually form the foundation of your friend's questioning the Scriptures, based on internal evidence of the Scriptures:

Question 1- Paul was the author of Hebrews:

Philippians 3:4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

Galatians 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews’ religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14 And profited in the Jews’ religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

II Timothy 1:2 To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
Philemon 1:1 Paul, a prisoner of Jesus Christ, and Timothy our brother, unto Philemon our dearly beloved, and fellowlabourer,
Heb 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty; with whom, if he come shortly, I will see you.

The solution to the authorship of Hebrews by Paul is that he was the only apostle qualified to write it. Barnabas, Apollos, or any other of the apostles and disciples, who Hebrews is attributed to, were great and mighty witnesses for the Lord Jesus Christ. None of them had the necessary knowledge and experience in Jewish Law and history, coupled with the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ as the centerpiece of the Old Testament and the similitude of, that the apostle Paul had. The mentioning of Timothy(a similitude of the present Body of Christ:Jewish mother, Gentile father) is revealing, as revealing as the mystery of the present Body, where Jews and Gentiles would be equal was given to Paul and no one else before Paul.

There are much Church "Fathers" speculation on the authorship of Hebrews. If the Church "Father" Pentium speculates that Platypus, brother-in-law of Apollos, authored Hebrews, we can be safe in discarding it and accepting the iron arrows of Scripture that points to Paul as the author.

Question 2-. Absence From “Earliest” Canonical Lists- Firstly, these “lists” are not canonical, as the people who refused to accept Hebrews as canonical were not the ones who decided the New Testament Canon, that will be discussed on Question 3, but any “list” that Hebrews is missing from, the reasons are given below:

Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

You mentioned previously that you are ex-Catholic. You should see in the above verses why these passages from Hebrews would want any Catholic “father” to not include it, as these verses throw the Catholic “Mass” , Christ’s daily and continuous sacrifice, into the realm of heresy. The “Mass”, as you know better than the rest of us, is the center of Roman Catholicism. There is no Roman Catholicism without the “Mass”.

Question 3- The proto-Catholic Church did not decide the Canon of the New Testament-

De 17:18 And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites:

Ac 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Ro 3: 1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
1Pe 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

This proto-Catholic Church(the “fathers”), as you describe it, did not have the authority to decide anything. The OT canon was in the custody of the Levites, the NT canon was decided by one of the Twelve Apostles, in this case the most notable and best candidate was the apostle John, who was the last surviving of the Twelve.

I am not trying to bulldoze you with information, Italics, underlinings, and capitalizations are merely for emphasis and not flames. I am merely being thorough. I hope, as Peter says above, that to the glory of God through Jesus Christ this helps you.

Grace and peace

Tony