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Old 06-21-2009, 03:47 PM
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tonybones2112 tonybones2112 is offline
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Default Enoch: The Man Who Will Never Die

Originally Posted by chette777 View Post
here is my view.

It is either two totally unknown Jewish believers in Christ who will be revealed during that time.

or it is Enoch of Gen5:24 and Elijah. Neither Enoch or Elijah died. And the scriptures tell us that it is appointed for every man to DIE ONCE then face judgement. Will Moses or John be risen to die again? Remember it can not violate Gods finished complete inspired inerrant preserved word of God.

also remember a glorified body can not face destruction or corruption it is free from that. the two witness have their head cut off that is destruction and they die. Corruption by Jewish standards starts as early as 3 1/2 to 4 days after death hence the reason God did not leave Christ in the grave and raised him on the third day and fulfill the scripture that his holy one would not see corruption. Also Rev 11:11 And AFTER three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. were their heads on their bodies when they stood up? We are not told? headless bodies standing up would answer why so many feared them.

Moses nor any righteous OT saint have glorified bodies yet. they have to face the GWT judgement of all the dead and enter the New Jerusalem to eat of the tree of life and drink of the rivers of the water of life. that is why we read for Israel that some are raised to everlasting glory and some to everlasting destruction in the last day. Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
John 5:28, 29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
Chette, what really makes me marvel is all the people who read the Bible, study the Bible, and at the same time don't believe the Bible. The question me and God have for you is underlined below:

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Acts 26:8 Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?

Why are you denying the power of God to raise from the dead? Because that's exactly what you do when you park at Hebrews 9 and say "...absolutely no way, the Bible says it..." Lazarus died twice. The young girl in Luke 8 died twice. Eutychius in Acts 20 died twice. "It's appointed unto men once to die..." and then Christ tells the Apostles and disciples:

Matt. 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

Jesus told John's disciples:

Mt 11:5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

All these people were dead and raised to life to die again. One death plus one death equals two deaths. Why did God write Hebrews 9:27 and then raise certain people to life, why is Elijah coming back to earth to die the first time and Moses the second time, since we've seen certain selected people died twice?

John 11:39 Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.
40 Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?

Are you going to allow God to glorify himself or stick with a private interpretation?

Enoch cannot be the second witness for three reasons:

1. Enoch is a Gentile, not a Jew. Enoch did not receive the sign of the covenant(circumcision), there were no Jews until Abraham.
2. There are no records in Scripture Enoch ever performed any of the following:

Re 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Only two men fit this description: Elijah for the first, and Moses is the second witness. Read Exodus 7:17 to Exodus 12:33. Read the book of Revelation, read the plagues in Revelation and see that the plagues that will smite the earth are the same plagues that smote Egypt in Exodus 7-12.

3. Enoch cannot die. Not now or ever. Enoch already has a glorified body:

Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

There are people who will be alive at the Calling out of the Church from the world who will never die, just like Enoch. That is why I said that Enoch is a Bible type of those saints alive at the "Rapture". Enoch never died and never will, there are possibly people alive today who will never die. How is I Thess. 4:16 reconciled with Hebrews 9:27? Can you answer that question or are you going to blow me off to Ruckman and Harry Ironside's private interpretations as Bro. Parrish did?

Chette, the reason I have not been active in the forum for the last couple weeks is two reasons: The forum is becoming like FFF: Contentious name-callers is the first reason. The second reason is I used to spend a lot of time writing messages and responding to messages that are read, and not studied, and if studied not believed.

At one time I instructed a Sunday School Bible study of 16 kids aged 8-12 in Isaiah 28:9-13 and was asked, can we use a concordance? I said most definitely, that's why concordances were made. I gave them 3 questions to study: 1. What was the "star" of Bethlehem 2. Who is the anti-Christ? 3 Who are the Two Witnesses of Rev. 11? I got these answers:

1. An angel
2. Judas Iscariot
3. Moses and Elijah

Why is it children can get what grown adults either can't or won't?

Jud 17:6 In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

Brother, I can't come and read, study, and believe your Bible for you. You have to set the private interpretations of others and yourself aside before God will give you understanding in anything. Now, you are free(until Islam takes your country and mine)to believe what you wish.

Grace and peace to you brother Chette.


Last edited by tonybones2112; 06-21-2009 at 03:55 PM. Reason: typo