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Old 05-22-2009, 04:27 PM
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tonybones2112 tonybones2112 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Greektim View Post
When you say the Rapture will "initiate the Tribulation" do you mean that it will begin the Trib? Like, trumpet blast and shout and translation of saints and boom the countdown of 7 years begins? Do you have a passage in mind that supports that? I often hear people say that but mostly b/c they suppose it to be true b/c the Rapture is Pre-Trib.

Also, when you say the "Tribulation church" are you referring to saints in the Trib? Or are you referring to another "church"? Or even an extension of the Raptured Church?

Just want to nail down you views before I start disputing some of your claims.
Tim, the Tribulation will have several elements to it, 2 of which are supernatural in nature while 4 will be "man-made":

1. Rapture of the Church: Supernatural in nature. 1/10 the living and 1/10 the dead will go in the Rapture. The sudden disappearance of 1/10 of 6 to 15 billion people(based on the time yet and population of the planet)will doubtlessly lead to the next 4 developments:
2. Social upheaval
3. Religious upheaval
4. Political upheaval
5. Economic upheaval
6. The pouring out onto the whole earth the Ten Plagues poured out on Egypt. The second supernatural occurrence.

John the Baptist and Jesus Christ's earthly ministries to Isaael were to, as Roman's 15:8 says, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers(Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob) in fulfillment of:

Ex 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
Isa 61:6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.
5 Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Even with the death of John the Baptist, the execution and resurrection of Christ, the kingdom of heaven message went forth through the Twelve Apostles with the continued consecration(water baptism, the Levitical washing of Lev 8)and then the sanctification with the Holy Spirit(in place of the oil, a type of the Holy Spirit), they went forth fulfilling this commandment to make a kingdom of priests of the whole nation of Israel, the point I am trying to show in the water baptism thread. If Peter were a member of this forum, there would be no water baptism thread, he would clear the matter in a heartbeat as he does in these two Scriptures:

1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

So far, so good. Up to the stoning of Stephen we have the Messianic-Apostolic Church led by Peter and ministered to by Peter, James, and John. Stephen is killed and national Israel falls. Up to this time, as Paul states in Romans 11, the Gentiles are exalted by blessing Israel and Israel's rise. Paul is called out to minister the grace of God to the Gentiles(and Jews) apart from the works of the law and apart from prophecy. The Body of Christ made of Gentiles and Jews co-equal was hid in God from all the ages. What we were grafted onto is not fallen national Israel but this Messianic-Apostolic Church of Peter, James, and John. We have been exalted through their fall, that is the mystery and now there is no difference between us.

Cometh the Rapture...

1/10 the living(the Body), 1/10 the dead(the Body). In Israel are 7000 who have not "bowed the knee to Baal", these 7000 teach or form the core of the 144,000, the "Tribulation saints", who convert people worldwide under the "Great Commission" Christ gave, with signs and wonders following, per Mark 16.

The program that stopped at Acts 7 begins again, Peter was preaching Tribulation is coming in Acts 2 per Joel 2. We are NOW in a parenthetical age, the "Church Age", "the Pauline Dispensation Of Grace", "The Grace Age", whatever you want to call it.

Does that answer your initial questions or do I need to clarify?

Tim, I don't have any inquiries as to your motives for being in this forum, you are here and a member like me. As long as it's done decently, in order, to edification and without hard feelings and emotional discombobulations, feel free to dispute my teaching here all you want,

Grace and peace brother.

Tony

Last edited by tonybones2112; 05-22-2009 at 04:31 PM. Reason: typo