[George]

Originally Posted by Jeff

God gives us over to a reprobate mind, NOT God gives us a reprobate mind.

It doesn't do God any honor to suggest that He causes our corruption. You can't attribute to Him what Satan and ourselves do. Treat God's Word with at least the same respect that you demand others treat your words with.

All underlines in Jeff's post are mine - George

George's quote:

God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; {That's Humanism brother - in all of its pride and earthly "glory").

Now if you don't "think" that isn't "messing" with someone's mind, then what is it? God "messes up" their minds so bad that they become "reprobate"!

What is your problem? Can't you quote my words accurately, just once? Over and over in your posts you continually mis-quote or misconstrue what I say to fit whatever "private interpretation" or whatever point you want to make.

I DID NOT SAY: "God gives us a reprobate mind." Can you not SEE the difference? God does NOT GIVE them a reprobate mind - that would be attributing evil to God (which I emphatically did NOT DO). God allows Satan to blind them and that "messes up" their minds so they cannot discern between good & evil; so they cannot understand the "truth"; and so they are destitute of spiritual wisdom so they: "do those things which are not convenient".

2 Corinthians 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Did God blind them directly? No! But did God allow Satan to carry out His will by allowing Satan to blind their minds? You bet He did!
I thought when I supplied the two following verses in my last post that you would understand how God operates (at least sometimes). And why I said what I said - but I guess I'll have to explain:

2 Samuel 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

1Chronicles 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

1 Chronicles 21:7 And God was displeased with this thing; therefore he smote Israel.

HOW did God "move" David against Israel? Did God, Himself, move David to number the children of Israel? Of course not (that would be "suggesting" that God were directly responsible for David's sin - something you are accusing me of.) Then what did God do? He allowed Satan to "provoke" David to number Israel. Wherefore - because God was angry with Israel. Was God unjust? He didn't "cause" David to number Israel, but He allowed Satan to cause David to sin in numbering Israel - and in the end accomplished His (God's) will in regards to His anger towards Israel. Is God unjust because of this? I trow not! Now you may not like this; you may not believe it; and you may not accept it, but God often allows Satan to "provoke", "tempt", or "prove" (test/try, etc.) His people. Remember Job?

"It doesn't do God any honor to suggest that He causes our corruption. You can't attribute to Him what Satan and ourselves do. Treat God's Word with at least the same respect that you demand others treat your words with."

It doesn't do any good to keep making false accusations when you can not prove them. IF I were guilty of what you accuse me of, I would be sinning. BUT, I NEVER "SUGGESTED", NO NOT ONCE, that God causes our corruption. Once again you are trying to put words in my mouth - and I will not let you get away with it. (Attributing sin to a child of God, when he is innocent is not a "just" thing to do - remember, that's what Job's friends did). I never once "attributed to Him what Satan and ourselves do".

I have always treated God's words with respect for over 40 years and I will not sit by and let you malign me with "malicious charges" and "libelous accusations" that you couldn't prove if your life depended on it.

Somewheres along the line I must have "ruffled your feathers" - I don't "demand" anything from you (or any body else on this Forum). Don't just carelessly fling out your accusations - produce the "demands". Where are they? However, now that you have brought it up; it would be nice if you could, just once, "Judge Righteous Judgment" instead of making unfounded and unwarranted accusations against a fellow Christian.

If you cannot fairly "criticize" my posts; and if you cannot cease from false accusations, allegations, etc.; and if you cannot stop twisting my words and taking them out of context to mean whatever you want them to mean; and if can not stop putting words in my mouth when I haven't said them - I will not answer any more of your criticisms. You've got a problem, and it's obvious that I can't "fix it."