Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy E
I don't either. I think that they WILL have a different one, after the Rapture of the Church. This is Daniel's 70th week, knowing that Daniel's prophecies deal with God and the Jews. (Dan. 9:24 - "thy people" Dan was a Jew) Right now, in the church, there is neither Jew nor Greek (Rom 10:12)
I agree we are. If someone is teaching a different plan of salvation for Jews today, they are wrong. They must go through Jesus Christ and they must be Born Again.
I understand what you are saying. Dispensationalism is a hard doctrine. But that is not a reason to just get rid of it.
What's wrong with taking the Bible as it says to. If a guy in the Bible is speaking to the Church, than he is talking to the Church. If he is talking to Jews than he is talking to Jews. I don't see that as a preconcieved idea or interpretation. I actually think that to make the passages addressed to the Jews something for the church is a preconcieved idea or interpretation that I would stay away from.
Now, a person should look for spiritual application throughout the entire Bible (I Tim 3:16). But one has to be careful getting Church Age doctrine outside of the Pauline Epistles and Peter and John. Have you ever wondered why Catholics and JWs and Mormons even use the Bible? Because their doctrine is in there. They just don't read context. Dispensationalism just is a way of remembering to look at context.
Maybe they are. I don't know, I've only been around this game for about a year now. Praise God He is very longsuffering. But like I've said before (can't remember where), the robber barons were bad, but, please, don't become a communists because of a couple of bad capitalists. (just an example, I am not calling anyone a commie)
Fine. I can very much respect that.
But you never really answered my question. How do you keep verses like those in James 2 and Romans 4 together? A plain reading shows that they are not talking about the same thing. Are we Christians saved by faith and then have to have works or else we were never saved? Or can a person get saved, do nothing with his new life, and still get to heaven (I would never recommend this, just an example)?
What about I Cor 3:10-15 and Heb 3:14? These questions are every where and if you, Stephanos, can give me a good reason to look at these verses in another way, I'm all ears!
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Greetings Easy E,
I really enjoyed your response tbh. I also really appreaciate your loving and patient attitude towards my messages. This is very much so 1 John 3:14. Anywho...
I think the thing I always keep in mind when I think about the whole notion of faith without works vs faith with works (which I believe Paul spoke about also) is that like Jesus said, a bad tree cannot bear good fruit and a good tree cannot bear bad fruit. A good example of this is the fact that there are literally millions upon millions of Americans that call themselves Christians, yet are easily the most Godless people on the face of the planet. So, you tell me, are these people Christians or are they not? If these people are Christians then I can assure you, my flesh wants some of the bible they're reading, because their conversation doesn't line up with the the Way I've learned in the Bible I've put my faith in. Works/fruit is the evidence of the faith in things unseen. I personally (a Mennonite) realized that I needed to be obedient with the message that a Christian needs to be seperate from the world, not sowing to the flesh by the outward adorning with jewelry and fashionable clothing and that I, a man and not a woman, should wear a beard. This was something that instantly made me an outsider to the world (and even to those that profess Jesus Christ, thought me a fool), yet because I am of my Master, Jesus Christ, I do things that are shown to me by Him who's ways are not of this world. This is the works I believe James is speaking of. It is also clear that James is not speaking of the works of the Mosaic Law as you will gather when you come across James 1:27. Also (the Holy Ghost just brought me to rememberance) James had Paul get clean as a sign that he kept the law (but didn't) when he returned to Jerusalem in Acts 21:21-26, yet James doesn't expressely speak concerning this Mosaic Law in James (and it is clear that James is in agreement with Paul in other passages concerning those Israelite Christians still zealous about the Law and the gentile Christians). James speaks of works as evidence of faith. Faith without works is dead, and dead trees, no matter how hard they pretend, cannot bear good fruit.
Well, that's all I have at 2:45am, lol. Thanks again for the response.
Much Love in Christ Jesus,
Stephen
EDIT: Ok maybe I still have some in me at this late hour.
In 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 it seems to me that Paul is speaking of the work of building up the body of Christ (and initially by the Gospel foundation that Paul built), and that even if it doesn't stand in the end that the work a Christian puts into it still counts. I think a good example of this is the fact that the church in Ephesus and Corinth are totally dead today. I don't think this is a sign of bad fruit, but rather seed being cast onto poor ground (the church at corinth died by the time of Clement).
Hebrews 3:14 is simply speaking of confidence, not sure how this relates to our discussion. I can relate to this verse however. Some men have tried to convince me that my zeal for Christ (which I've had for nearly 10 years now) will wax cold as I grow older (I'm 26 now), but I do not believe this is true. I know men that never have yet to grow cold, who still hold to the beginning of their confidence until the end. I even know men that now sleep that never lost this confidence. These are the men whose faith was held unto the end. I think another thing to keep in mind is what Jesus says to each of the churches in Asia Minor, "I know thy works" (Revelation 2:2,9,13,19 3:1,8,15) so I don't think a Christian can in good faith claim that our Master doesn't require good works from us. I'm not so sure why so many people believe that works aren't required of us, but I often ask them if obedience is required of us. A lot of people that profess Jesus Christ remind me of a child saying to his father, I love you so much that I don't have to do what you say. It is my hope and prayer that this isn't my response to the commandments of Christ Jesus the King! Amen.
Welp, it's 3:15 and I'm signing off for the second time. *zzz*